Cincinnati MSA to surpass Cleveland MSA in population this year (Columbus: amusement parks, neighborhoods)

[wrightflyer]

While I agree that Cleveland has the most metropolitan feel compared to the other two major cities, I have to disagree that Dayton ranks under Toledo. First off, Dayton ranked better as seen here...
36. Columbus
38. Cincinnati-Middletown
84. Dayton
87. Springfield
120. Toledo
202. Sandusky
236. Canton-Massillon
269. Youngstown-Warren-Boardman
285. Cleveland-Elyria-Mentor
290. Mansfield
298. Akron
336. Lima

Basis of rankings: economy & jobs, costs of living, climate, education, health & healthcare, crime, transportation, leisure, arts & culture, quality of life

Cities Ranked and Rated: 1 - 100
Information provided by OHBuckeye.

After traversing back and forth between Toledo and Dayton a few times in the past year, it appears to me that the Dayton area is faring better. There isn't as much of a depression and downtown and some of its surrounding areas such as South Park and the Brown Street corridor seem to show Dayton isn't down and out. Also, Toledo doesn't benefit from its proximity to Detriot as Dayton does with Cincinnati or even Columbus.
Personally, I feel the first three (Cinncy/CMH/CLE) are interchangeable, but I find Dayton far above Toledo. But hey, I'm use to areas being like NYC and Washington so most of Ohio's metro areas seem small. Just be thankful we have so many.

[wrightflyer]

Here's the actual link.
Cities Ranked and Rated: 1 - 100

[OHBuckeye]

Originally Posted by CTownNative

Cleveland has a higher density rate than Cincinnati,3 sports teams,bigger buildings in its skyline.Cleveland is the bigger city,with the bigger city feel.After Cleveland it goes Cincinnati,Columbus,Toledo,than Dayton.

Cleveland may be more densely populated, whereas Cincy is more sprawled out, but that doesn't change the overall population figures of the MSA's. If one were to spend enough time driving around both areas, one would quite likely get the impression that Cincy has more of a big city feel given that it has noticeably more traffic congestion than Cleveland.

As for major pro sports teams, San Diego (which has a significantly higher MSA population than Cleveland) only has two, and Portland, OR (which has a slightly higher MSA population than Cleveland) only has one...does that mean they're smaller than Cleveland even though they have larger populations? Also, if you want to compare areas based on sports, college sports should be factored in as well. A few years ago, Cincy was named the #1 city in the country for college basketball by a major publication (I think it was The Sporting News), and that was before UC joined the Big East conference. Nowadays, NCAA basketball is just as popular if not more so than the NBA on a national level, and Cincy has historically had a much bigger presence in NCAA basketball than Cleveland has. Cincy has Big East basketball and football; Cleveland doesn't have anything comparable to that in college sports.

P.S. 'wrightflyer' is correct that Dayton is bigger than Toledo...the 7/1/06 MSA populations were 838,940 for Dayton and 653,695 for Toledo.

[MABCle]

Originally Posted by OHBuckeye

Cleveland may be more densely populated, whereas Cincy is more sprawled out, but that doesn't change the overall population figures of the MSA's. If one were to spend enough time driving around both areas, one would quite likely get the impression that Cincy has more of a big city feel given that it has noticeably more traffic congestion than Cleveland.

As for major pro sports teams, San Diego (which has a significantly higher MSA population than Cleveland) only has two, and Portland, OR (which has a slightly higher MSA population than Cleveland) only has one...does that mean they're smaller than Cleveland even though they have larger populations? Also, if you want to compare areas based on sports, college sports should be factored in as well. A few years ago, Cincy was named the #1 city in the country for college basketball by a major publication (I think it was The Sporting News), and that was before UC joined the Big East conference. Nowadays, NCAA basketball is just as popular if not more so than the NBA on a national level, and Cincy has historically had a much bigger presence in NCAA basketball than Cleveland has. Cincy has Big East basketball and football; Cleveland doesn't have anything comparable to that in college sports.

P.S. 'wrightflyer' is correct that Dayton is bigger than Toledo...the 7/1/06 MSA populations were 838,940 for Dayton and 653,695 for Toledo.

Pro sports teams are all about media markets. Cleveland's media market has 4.6 million people. Bigger than those markets you mentioned and much larger than Cincinnati. College sports don't generate the income or exposure of the pros, so you guys can have that. The traffic in Cincy is probably due to the fact cincy's freeways are only 3 lanes wide versus Cleveland's 4 lanes and you only have 71, 471 and 75 going to downtown where Cleveland has 71,77,90,490,and OH 176.

I'm sick of these people acting like 100,000 moved to CIncy since 2000 when all that happened was 2 micropolitan areas were added to the Cincinnati MSA. Had that not happened Cincy would still be at 2,00X,XXX if it didn't shrink.

[Ohiogirl81]

Originally Posted by OHBuckeye

If one were to spend enough time driving around both areas, one would quite likely get the impression that Cincy has more of a big city feel given that it has noticeably more traffic congestion than Cleveland.

Heh. Perhaps that has something to do with a) on the west side of Cincinnati, you can't get there from here; and 2) colloquial driving skills. Cincinnati drivers will create a backup trying to move from the left lane to the right because they want to turn right and are in the wrong lane to do so. They also will cheerfully slam on the brakes and muck up traffic to let another car merge onto the freeway, where Cleveland drivers just move over to the next lane, and traffic just hums on smoothly.

The traffic heading north from Kentucky also contributes to that overall impression of congestions; there simply aren't that many ways to get across the river.

[QueenCty]

Uh - the statement below is just wrong. The numbers comparing 2000 and 2006 population are for the exact same set of counties for Cincinnati which did indeed increase 100,000, as is Cleveland's, which lost. The census information in previous links confirms this.

I'm sick of these people acting like 100,000 moved to CIncy since 2000 when all that happened was 2 micropolitan areas were added to the Cincinnati MSA. Had that not happened Cincy would still be at 2,00X,XXX if it didn't shrink.[/quote]

[NewToCA]

Not having a dog in this fight, and having lived in Columbus but spending much time in both Cinci and Cleveland, I have no doubt whatsoever that Cleveland has much more of the feel of a big city. Cinci is more comparable to Indianapolis in terms of how it feels size wise, and I use Indy over Columbus because of the stronger central business district (i.e. downtown area).

Cleveland and Cinci don't feel anything close in size, Cleveland is much larger.

[CTownNative]

Thats all Im saying that Cleveland has more of a big city feel then Cincinnati.It wouldn't suprise me if Clevelands metro is losing population but I think the only reason Cincinnati's metro is gaining population is because it is close to Indiana and Kentucky.I mean how does the Cincinnati area in Ohio gain a bunch of people when the whole state only gained like 10,000 people.

[OHBuckeye]

Originally Posted by MABCle

Pro sports teams are all about media markets. Cleveland's media market has 4.6 million people. Bigger than those markets you mentioned and much larger than Cincinnati. College sports don't generate the income or exposure of the pros, so you guys can have that. The traffic in Cincy is probably due to the fact cincy's freeways are only 3 lanes wide versus Cleveland's 4 lanes and you only have 71, 471 and 75 going to downtown where Cleveland has 71,77,90,490,and OH 176.

I'm sick of these people acting like 100,000 moved to CIncy since 2000 when all that happened was 2 micropolitan areas were added to the Cincinnati MSA. Had that not happened Cincy would still be at 2,00X,XXX if it didn't shrink.

'QueenCty' is absolutely correct - the numbers comparing the 2006 and 2000 MSA populations are for the exact same sets of counties for both Cincinnati and Cleveland. The 2000 MSA figures were first released in 2003, and the definition of the 15-county Cincy MSA was the same then as it is now. The population has indeed increased by 95,000 in the 15-county area over the 6-year period while the population of the Cleveland metro decreased by 34,000. The Wilmington micropolitan area has been added to the Cincy CSA, but no micros have been added to the Cincy MSA. [Note: see the 2nd post I made after this one...in my reply to 'CTownNative,' I listed the exact 2000-2006 population changes for each of the Ohio counties in the Cincy MSA.]

As for college sports vs. pro, what you said is correct if you were only talking about the NFL and MLB (both of which Cincy has teams in), but it's not so correct when talking about the NBA, which has experienced a big decline in popularity since its peak in 1997-98. According to the annual Harris Interactive survey of America's favorite sport, pro football is twice as popular as baseball, which is twice as popular as pro basketball. College football is nearly twice as popular as pro basketball, which is only slightly more popular than college basketball. Harris Interactive | The Harris Poll - While Still the Nation’s Favorite Sport, Professional Football Drops in Popularity

Regarding the traffic, 490 and 176 do not go to downtown Cleveland; they link to the other routes that you listed. As for Cincy, you left out US-50 (part of which is known as Columbia Parkway), a heavily traveled east-west highway that goes through downtown.

[OHBuckeye]

Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81

They also will cheerfully slam on the brakes and muck up traffic to let another car merge onto the freeway, where Cleveland drivers just move over to the next lane, and traffic just hums on smoothly.

Very true, unfortunately! Of course, Cleveland drivers HAVE to move over to the next lane - from what I've seen, very few people there know what 'yield' means!