Cincinnati MSA to surpass Cleveland MSA in population this year (Columbus: amusement park, live in)

[Ohiogirl81]

Originally Posted by M TYPE X

"but they don't have Skyline Chili"

Maybe that's why Clevelanders have a better sense of humor and are able to laugh at themselves more readily ... less indigestion. *urp*

Shoot, now I'm craving Skyline ... ...

[OHBuckeye]

Originally Posted by Cle440

The City of Cleveland is a lot bigger then Cincinnati, Cincinnati is not even in the 50 biggest cities in the country anymore. Its estimated that the city of Cincy only has 290,000 people now. Cleveland has 430,000 and Cincy is 2 square miles larger than Cleveland.

Last week, the Census Bureau released its estimates for the 7/1/06 populations of cities. The estimate for Cincinnati is 332,252, an increase of 942 since 7/1/05 and 967 since 4/1/00. The Cincinnati Post - City's population grows by 942 (broken link)

Meanwhile, the estimate for Cleveland is 444,313, a decrease of 33,159 (6.9%) since 4/1/00. Of cities with populations of more than 100,000, Cleveland ranks 3rd in the nation in population loss (2nd if you exclude New Orleans, which ranks 1st because of obvious reasons). The Cincinnati Post - Three Ohio cities losing population rapidly (broken link)

[MABCle]

Originally Posted by OHBuckeye

Last week, the Census Bureau released its estimates for the 7/1/06 populations of cities. The estimate for Cincinnati is 332,252, an increase of 942 since 7/1/05 and 967 since 4/1/00. The Cincinnati Post - City's population grows by 942 (broken link)

Meanwhile, the estimate for Cleveland is 444,313, a decrease of 33,159 (6.9%) since 4/1/00. Of cities with populations of more than 100,000, Cleveland ranks 3rd in the nation in population loss (2nd if you exclude New Orleans, which ranks 1st because of obvious reasons). The Cincinnati Post - Three Ohio cities losing population rapidly (broken link)

Not this thread again. Cincinnati's have been inflated becasue the mayor challenged the census and won. Cleveland didn't challenge, but has has similar studies that show the population to be over 500k. In 2010 I wouldn't be surprised if Cncinnati is lower than its year 2000 population.

[OHBuckeye]

Originally Posted by MABCle

In 2010 I wouldn't be surprised if Cncinnati is lower than its year 2000 population.

In 2010 I would be very surprised if Cleveland isn't MUCH lower (probably 50,000+) than its year 2000 population. I hope I'm wrong, as I would prefer to have all of Ohio's major cities prospering.

[MABCle]

Originally Posted by OHBuckeye

In 2010 I would be very surprised if Cleveland isn't MUCH lower (probably 50,000+) than its year 2000 population. I hope I'm wrong, as I would prefer to have all of Ohio's major cities prospering.

True, I think the best thing out of this is that the vast majority of American Inner cities are growing after 50 years. That's reason to be optimistic in the midst of census figures like Cleveland, Detroit etc are dishing out. There are lots of development projects in Ohio's cities and Cities across the Lake Erie Basin that will hopefully get more folks to live in the inner city. There is also some signs of hope as Cleveland has the fastest growing downtown in the nation and University Circle, probably its second most important neighborhood is growing as well.

[The Cactus Leaguer]

As someone who is very familiar with Cleveland, Cincinnati, and my hometown (and similar-sized MSA) of Portland, I found this thread to be interesting. I also do a lot of Census research and I find it fascinating how MSA’s are defined. I think it’s very instructive to look at the components of population change. Here’s how it breaks down for the four population areas in question, along with Portland and Salem, Oregon (which is 45 miles from PDX and was removed from Portland’s CMSA after the ’00 census):

(As a side note, I have to laugh when cities brag about their huge population growth when in reality much of it is attributed to the redrawing of boundaries. This wasn’t the case with Cincinnati, but it IS the case with San Antonio)

City/2006 Estimate/2000 Census/# Increase/% Increase:
Cleveland/2,114,155/2,148,010/-33,855/-1.58%
Cincinnati/2,104,218/2,009,673/94,545/4.70%
Portland/2,137,565/1,927,881/209,684/10.88%
Akron/700,943/694,960/5,983/0.86%
Dayton/838,940/848,157/-9,217/-1.58%
Salem/384,600/347,218/37,382/10.77%

City/”Natural” Increase/”Natural” % Change/Births/Birth Rate/Deaths/Death Rate:
Cleveland/34,198/1.59%/168,188/7.83%/133,990/6.24%
Cincinnati/73,250/3.64%/182,812/9.10%/109,562/5.45%
Portland/83,196/4.32%/176,112/9.14%/92,916/4.82%
Akron/11,670/1.68%/52,778/7.59%/41,108/5.92%
Dayton/17,848/2.10%/67,770/7.99%/49,922/5.89%
Salem/14,408/4.15%/33,470/9.64%/19,062/5.49%

City/Migration Change/Migr. %/International Migration Change/Int’l %/Internal Migration Change/Internal %
Cleveland/-69,011/-3.21%/24,089/1.12%/-93,100/-4.33%
Cincinnati/1,966/0.10%/17,204/0.86%/-15,238/-0.76%
Portland/133,110/6.90%/68,125/3.53%/64,985/3.37%
Akron/-6,148/-0.88%/4,711/0.68%/-10,859/-1.56%
Dayton/-24,495/-2.89%/4,319/0.51%/-28,814/-3.40%
Salem/24,214/6.97%/12,949/3.73%/11,265/3.24%

(side note - I realize that the subcategories of change don't add up to the total change... blame the Census Bureau for this, not me)

Let the speculation begin!

[The Cactus Leaguer]

Cleveland is shrinking. The natural growth rate is slow which reflects an aging demographic, but most of it is due to a large negative internal migration. I know there is speculation about young college graduates moving south and west, but clearly the loss of manufacturing jobs is an overwhelmingly huge factor.

Cincinnati is growing, albeit more slowly than the US average (Cincy 4.70%, US 6.38%). Most of the growth is natural, and it does appear that more US citizens are moving away from Cincinnati than to Cincinnati.

Personally I am floored at Portland's growth rate this decade despite having the worst economy in the US in early 2000's right after the high tech bust. Growth is steady, not spectacular like Phoenix or Vegas, and sprawl is limited due to land use planning laws. My Cincinnati transplant friends laugh at Portland's freeway network but are floored by the mass transit, bike and pedestrian friendly neighborhoods, and vibrant downtown. It's not better or worse, just different and a matter of personal preference.

[The Cactus Leaguer]

One other quick note - I am a huge fan of Northeast Ohio. My in-laws live there and I think it is a wildly underrated part of the country. If Portland is a "growth" stock, I'd say Cleveland is a "value" stock.

Cincinnati is definitely nice too, but I don't think I would be as happy living there because the downtown seems kind of dead to me, and if I'm going to put up with all the negatives of living in a large metro area, I want as many of the positive amenities as I can get to offset the headaches. To me this is where Cleveland shines.

[MABCle]

Just wondering how you like Portland's streetcar? Cincinnati and Columbus are both trying to get them, but I watched a video on Youtube and they seemed kind of slow. Are they used primarily for on and off type traveling or commuter traveling?

[The Cactus Leaguer]

Originally Posted by MABCle

Just wondering how you like Portland's streetcar? Cincinnati and Columbus are both trying to get them, but I watched a video on Youtube and they seemed kind of slow. Are they used primarily for on and off type traveling or commuter traveling?

On and off traveling. There is no dedicated lane for the streetcar so it moves along with traffic. It is a great redevelopment tool and nice for trips along the route, but generally not for commuting (although in our case the streetcar intersects with the light rail ("MAX") so you could commute a significant distance in combination with MAX).