Cincinnati MSA to surpass Cleveland MSA in population this year (Columbus: travel, income)

[CTownNative]

Ohio's population is one of the slowest growing in the country.Ohio only gained around 10,000 people last year.Its less than 1% so I don't really get how Cincinnati could be growing so much unless people from other parts of Ohio are moving there which I also can't see because Columbus is the booming city in Ohio right now.But I think Cleveland is higher known than any other city in Ohio,we are the only city in Ohio with three major league sports teams,not to mention the fact that there is many minor league sports teams in the area.I do think Cleveland is the most depressed city in Ohio other than Youngstown.But Cleveland has great hospitals,the Rock-N-Roll hall of fame,and the lake.Cincinnati has the river but it doesn't compare to the lake.We are also represented more in popular culture.We have alot of music artists finally making it big,and The Cavs are in the championship,but really that is a good thing for all of Ohio.The crime is higher in Cleveland through,and the population is declining faster than Cincinnati.When you come down to it through,we are all Ohioins,or mostly all Ohioins,I live in Colorado but am still an Ohionin at heart and am planning on moving back,but every one else in this country for some reason seems to hold a grudge against our state,so really we should all just unite and show people we really are a great state.

[wrightflyer]

I couldn't have put it any better myself. I think part of that depression is the age. Cleveland's growth was in the post WWII heydays, thus all of the little incorporated suburbs. That goes without saying there are older places in Cleveland. That's probably why the tow (Cinncy and Cleveland) have a rivarly of sorts. The cities are both large metropolitans in complete opposite corners with much history and most of the same (if not similar) things. As for the apparently faulty numbers, it comes from sprawl and the emptying out of the city and some inner ring suburbs. But that's not just a Cleveland/Cincinnati problem. Every metro area in the state (and much of the Midwest and Northeast) have this problem.

[MABCle]

Originally Posted by wrightflyer

I couldn't have put it any better myself. I think part of that depression is the age. Cleveland's growth was in the post WWII heydays, thus all of the little incorporated suburbs. That goes without saying there are older places in Cleveland. That's probably why the tow (Cinncy and Cleveland) have a rivarly of sorts. The cities are both large metropolitans in complete opposite corners with much history and most of the same (if not similar) things. As for the apparently faulty numbers, it comes from sprawl and the emptying out of the city and some inner ring suburbs. But that's not just a Cleveland/Cincinnati problem. Every metro area in the state (and much of the Midwest and Northeast) have this problem.

Exactly!!!

Strickland (Current Governor) has plans to greatly invest state funds in OHio's inner city areas not brand new exurbs. It has been said that now that Strickland is in office we have a Governor who doesn't think Columbus is the only part of Ohio. That coupled with new construction projects meant to start to revitalize the inner cities could mean big things are to come for Ohio's major cities.

[CTownNative]

I agree with you wrightflyer.Alot of cities in the MidWest and NorthEast are going through a depression,just some harder than others,and Cincinnati isn't included.Heres my list of the top 5 worst hit.Detroit,Cleveland,Flint,Buffalo,Pittsburgh.The se cities have really failed to recover from the loss of steel mills.They have all struggled with crime and poverty.They all lose population.But these cities all also have great things about them too.But alot of inner-ring suburbs are starting to get the problems of the cities.Again this is especially true in the MidWest and NorthEast.Alot of cities have gone through depresions and are currently pulling out.Here is my Top 5 list again.Atlanta,Baltimore,Chicago,New York City,and Washington D.C.Now note also through that some of these cities still do have thier fair share of problems but are getting better.I don't think Detroit will be able to rebound.Now Cleveland probably can,but they need to start working at that right now.

[MABCle]

Originally Posted by CTownNative

I agree with you wrightflyer.Alot of cities in the MidWest and NorthEast are going through a depression,just some harder than others,and Cincinnati isn't included.Heres my list of the top 5 worst hit.Detroit,Cleveland,Flint,Buffalo,Pittsburgh.The se cities have really failed to recover from the loss of steel mills.They have all struggled with crime and poverty.They all lose population.But these cities all also have great things about them too.But alot of inner-ring suburbs are starting to get the problems of the cities.Again this is especially true in the MidWest and NorthEast.Alot of cities have gone through depresions and are currently pulling out.Here is my Top 5 list again.Atlanta,Baltimore,Chicago,New York City,and Washington D.C.Now note also through that some of these cities still do have thier fair share of problems but are getting better.I don't think Detroit will be able to rebound.Now Cleveland probably can,but they need to start working at that right now.

I agree with that, but will add that metro Detroit has just recently started to lose population. The Cleveland Metro grew during the 90's, as did Buffalo, and Pittsburgh as a region has been in Decline since the 70's. All the NE midwestern cities have been losing population, save for Columbus and Indianapolis. Its the horrible economy. In Cleveland's case manufacturing is no longer the leading economic sector. That's good because the declining manufacturing sector will have less of an effect on the economy. The bad thing is all the jobs shed because of the decline. Give these cities a robust economy and people will flock to them like they are Indy, Minneapolis and Chicago.

[CTownNative]

Well and these cities need to find another type of economy now that manufacturing is all but gone.In Cleveland's case the hospitals are good.But I don't think you can just build and economy around hospitals.Alot of the economy problems tell the story of schools too.43% of Clevelands high school seniors didn't pass,suprisingly through in Indianapolis 60% didn't.The big corperations are looking for a bunch of young professionals to work for them and when they see a graduation rate like that they won't come to your city.And then alot of the people who do graduate look elsewhere for jobs.Now I think some of that 43% will go to summer school and get thier diplomas,but I've also read that alot of them have already given up.I think population loss has more to do with economy rather than crime.Crime is just another reflection of a bad economy.

[MABCle]

Originally Posted by CTownNative

Well and these cities need to find another type of economy now that manufacturing is all but gone.In Cleveland's case the hospitals are good.But I don't think you can just build and economy around hospitals.Alot of the economy problems tell the story of schools too.43% of Clevelands high school seniors didn't pass,suprisingly through in Indianapolis 60% didn't.The big corperations are looking for a bunch of young professionals to work for them and when they see a graduation rate like that they won't come to your city.And then alot of the people who do graduate look elsewhere for jobs.Now I think some of that 43% will go to summer school and get thier diplomas,but I've also read that alot of them have already given up.I think population loss has more to do with economy rather than crime.Crime is just another reflection of a bad economy.

Cleveland also has insurance companies, big banks and big law firms. The Hospitalas will definitely help, but the spin-off companies will help even more.

The graduation rate is outright pathetic. Part of that is that some of the seniors didn't pass parts of the new OGT test. This is part a reflection of bad schools, but also a mentality that school just isn't imprtant.

You're right about population loss and its corellation to a bad economy. like I said before Cleveland grew in the nineties when the national and regional economy was booming. In 2000 we started out with the closure of the LTV mill, and the decline of the eighties started up again.

Ohio has a horrible tax climate for business and this is part of the reason the state lags the nation in job creation and attraction to new businesses.

[cyberdasher]

I have to agree on the tax climate. . .It's almost like Ohio is in New England.

One way to measure the Three C Cities-- look at the current Fortune 500 list.. . .Including nearby MSAs within reason (Akron and North Canton with Cleveland, Dayton with Cincy, Columbus with Marysville, etc) here is a distribution:

Columbus - 15 companies, $150 billion in revenues

Cleveland - 24 companies, $128 billion in revenues

Cincinnati - 20 companies, $215 billion in revenues

[Subway]

Originally Posted by cyberdasher

I have to agree on the tax climate. . .It's almost like Ohio is in New England.

One way to measure the Three C Cities-- look at the current Fortune 500 list.. . .Including nearby MSAs within reason (Akron and North Canton with Cleveland, Dayton with Cincy, Columbus with Marysville, etc) here is a distribution:

Columbus - 15 companies, $150 billion in revenues

Cleveland - 24 companies, $128 billion in revenues

Cincinnati - 20 companies, $215 billion in revenues

Thanks for saving me the time to reseach that! That was a comparison that I thought needed to be added to this interesting thread in which everybody that participated made good points. I'm not surprised that Cincy is 1st in Fortune 500 revenues, but I am surprised that Cleveland is below Columbus. One other thing that I would point out that gives Cincy more of a big city feel is that it has two daily newspapers [Cincinnati Enquirer (morning) & Cincinnati Post (afternoon)], whereas Cleveland only has one.

[CTownNative]

Cleveland has a higher density rate than Cincinnati,3 sports teams,bigger buildings in its skyline.Cleveland is the bigger city,with the bigger city feel.After Cleveland it goes Cincinnati,Columbus,Toledo,than Dayton.