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My brother is a tattoo artist. He recently left Ohio for Florida because they pay more for his work down there.
I visited my aunt in Charlotte, NC about 17 years ago. Because of her economic level in society, I saw plenty of people who were similar to what you described above.
The company I work for does NOT provide dental coverage. Luckily, my teeth are strong, I take good care of them, and I can easily afford to get regular check ups every 6 months. Not everyone is so lucky. Now that we have national health care, maybe things will get a little better?
I guess I'm most concerned that you appear to look down on your fellow man. I suggest you try walking in their shoes for awhile before you judge them so harshly. And, you seem to believe these conditions are just a local phenomenon.
Okay, let's cut the proverbial cr*p here since you're "so concerned" about me.
First off, I don't need yours (or anyone else's) "lecture" about "walking in someone else's shoes awhile before you judge them so harshly." Okay? Agree to that? For the record, all of my relatives (and myself) relocated to NE OH in the late 60's from Eastern Europe. The relatives (including mom) didn't speak English, so guess what kind of jobs were awaiting them - yep, manual labor jobs (hard, physical manual labor jobs with no benefits, no unemployment compensation, no worker's disability, no vacation - nothing. They got paid for the hours they worked and that was it. If you didn't show up for work, they didn't get paid. I was young enough that I could assimilate into the language and learn it because I went to school.
I started working at a chicken restaurant in Barberton at age 14, (my brother started at age 12) - yes - seriously. I worked in the kitchen frying chicken, getting burned with hot lard, cleaning chicken and french fryers at the end of the night. One time, in parrticular, I stuck my foot in scalding boiling french fry grease as I was cleaning the fryers at the end of the night. I did this job into my early 20's.
My brother, literally had a pot of boiling coffee broken on him accidentally by a waitress (he went out to deliver clean beverage glasses and the waitress did not see him and as she turned around, she accidentally bumped into him, the carafe shattered, and he got severely burned). The restaurant owner did nothing; we simply took care of him at home with natural remedies because we also didn't have health insurance. This was in the 70's.
Fast forward to today: brother is a mechanic, does a great job at it. Our dad was a mechanic in Europle. I went to college, put my husband through college, worked full-time during all of it and raised kids. Sorry I'm such a jerk for doing so. I guess I should have fallen to the wayside....nope. Since God granted me two functioning legs, arms, eyes, ears, and one brain to think with - I did something with all of that and made something out of myself. Oh, yes, I have no clue...yada, yada, yada....uh yes, I probably do....and more.
It's too bad that people latch onto a few words, "tatooes", "piercings" and dwell on that without seeing the WHOLE picture. I guess it's a way to avoid the real point (the fact that the good paying, union type jobs that employed several generations of people in NE OH have long gone) and instead trivialize the message as well as the poster. That's fine by me. It still doesn't change the fact that in order to compete for jobs nowadays, people have to be on the ball as much as possible and make the most of what they have. It has nothing to do with manual labor jobs vs. white collar jobs, etc. It's deeper than that. Unfortunately, there are posters who are either naive or deliberately obtuse. They know darn well what is and what isn't, but they want to act like they don't know what's going on and instead act all "I can't believe you just said that." Whatever. We all pretty much know what it takes to make it in the economy today; whether one is a manual labor worker, white collar worker, or anything else. There's no point in beating around the bush.
P.S. As far as National Health Care - I support that. I've already said that I support helping people in any way I can so they can help themselves. I believe I said that in my original post.
Okay, let's cut the proverbial cr*p here since you're "so concerned" about me.
First off, I don't need yours (or anyone else's) "lecture" about "walking in someone else's shoes awhile before you judge them so harshly." Okay? Agree to that? For the record, all of my relatives (and myself) relocated to NE OH in the late 60's from Eastern Europe. The relatives (including mom) didn't speak English, so guess what kind of jobs were awaiting them - yep, manual labor jobs (hard, physical manual labor jobs with no benefits, no unemployment compensation, no worker's disability, no vacation - nothing. They got paid for the hours they worked and that was it. If you didn't show up for work, they didn't get paid. I was young enough that I could assimilate into the language and learn it because I went to school.
I started working at a chicken restaurant in Barberton at age 14, (my brother started at age 12) - yes - seriously. I worked in the kitchen frying chicken, getting burned with hot lard, cleaning chicken and french fryers at the end of the night. One time, in parrticular, I stuck my foot in scalding boiling french fry grease as I was cleaning the fryers at the end of the night. I did this job into my early 20's.
My brother, literally had a pot of boiling coffee broken on him accidentally by a waitress (he went out to deliver clean beverage glasses and the waitress did not see him and as she turned around, she accidentally bumped into him, the carafe shattered, and he got severely burned). The restaurant owner did nothing; we simply took care of him at home with natural remedies because we also didn't have health insurance. This was in the 70's.
Fast forward to today: brother is a mechanic, does a great job at it. Our dad was a mechanic in Europle. I went to college, put my husband through college, worked full-time during all of it and raised kids. Sorry I'm such an a*s for doing so. I guess I should have fallen to the wayside....nope. Since God granted me two functioning legs, arms, eyes, ears, and one brain to think with - I did something with all of that and made something out of myself. .
Now, the people that I spoke about are UNEMPLOYABLE, got it? UNEMPLOYABLE!!!! They are the types that employers will NOT hire - period. If you think I'm full of it or "judgmental" because I say that, then so be it. But that's how it is and if you think I'm an a*s for saying that, then so be it.
As another poster said, there are dress codes, appearance codes (tats, piercings in weird places, etc.) and unless you conform to the company's codes, you can forget about it. And as she/he also said, there are divisions at colleges which demand that students comply to certain codes. If this is wrong, then I'm sorry, but that's how it is. Besides that, the people I spoke about had more things wrong with them than just sporting tats and/or weird piercings. Won't get into that because the first post caused enough trouble. It's too bad that people latch onto a few words, "tatooes", "piercings" and dwell on that without seeing the WHOLE picture. I guess it's a way to avoid the real point and instead trivialize the message as well as the poster. That's fine by me. It still doesn't change the fact that in order to compete for jobs nowadays, people have to be on the ball as much as possible and make the most of what they have. It has nothing to do with manual labor jobs vs. white collar jobs, etc. It's deeper than that.
P.S. As far as National Health Care - I support that.
You are not the only one who worked as a teen, put yourself through college, etc. There are unemployable people in every State. What I want to know is why you are so angry and judgmental?
You are not the only one who worked as a teen, put yourself through college, etc. There are unemployable people in every State. What I want to know is why you are so angry and judgmental?
First off, Alaskapat, I did NOT put myself and my husband through college while raising our children (and still raising them to this day) IN MY TEENS. I did it in my 20's and 30's. I am now 47. That's fact #1.
Fact #2 is that I have no clue what you're talking about as far as being "angry and judgmental." Maybe that's how you construe it and that's fine by me. The point is, Miss Alaska Pat, that Barberton and surrounding communities have been economically devestated since the mid 1970's and "this" is what is left now. When have you been to Barberton last???? Please move back to Ohio, specifically, the neck of the woods I'm speaking of before you attack me or anyone else. I am really sorry now for bringing up that town because the point is not really about the town but about the three-four decades of economic decay and the reason why people in this area have been moving out of for decades. Maybe the tide is turning, and if that's the case, then that is good.
Fact #3: In any case, no matter what YOU or any other poster thinks, I am free to state my opinion just like anyone else. This is a public forum.
Fact #4: Why did YOU move out of Ohio? Unlike you and other people who have left the state, my family and I have been here for the last 40+ years and still live here, and have lived here throughout the good AND the bad. We work here, we pay taxes here, our children go to school here.
Fact #5: The OP is free to move anywhere he/she wants to (just like YOU did) without people acting like jerks, i.e. people telling him/her to not let the door hit them on the a*s on the way out. No need to act like that. If people can find something better, better opportunity, or just want a change, then they should be allowed to do so without being bullied and harassed. People move in and out of different states all the time. Why is the Ohio board so adamant about making people feel like idiots if they want to move out? By the time someone posts a "My Ohio Dear Jane letter" - they've already made the decision to leave. No one's comments about them being "stupid" or a "fool" or having doors hit their a*s will change that.
First off, Alaskapat, I did NOT put myself and my husband through college while raising our children (and still raising them to this day) IN MY TEENS. I did it in my 20's and 30's. I am now 47. That's fact #1.
Fact #2 is that I have no clue what you're talking about as far as being "angry and judgmental." Maybe that's how you construe it and that's fine by me. The point is, Miss Alaska Pat, that Barberton and surrounding communities have been economically devestated since the mid 1970's and "this" is what is left now. When have you been to Barberton last???? Please move back to Ohio, specifically, the neck of the woods I'm speaking of before you attack me or anyone else. I am really sorry now for bringing up that town because the point is not really about the town but about the three-four decades of economic decay and the reason why people in this area have been moving out of for decades. Maybe the tide is turning, and if that's the case, then that is good.
Fact #3: In any case, no matter what YOU or any other poster thinks, I am free to state my opinion just like anyone else. This is a public forum.
Fact #4: Why did YOU move out of Ohio? Unlike you and other people who have left the state, my family and I have been here for the last 40+ years and still live here, and have lived here throughout the good AND the bad. We work here, we pay taxes here, our children go to school here.
Fact #5: The OP is free to move anywhere he/she wants to (just like YOU did) without people acting like jerks, i.e. people telling him/her to not let the door hit them on the a*s on the way out. No need to act like that. If people can find something better, better opportunity, or just want a change, then they should be allowed to do so without being bullied and harassed. People move in and out of different states all the time. Why is the Ohio board so adamant about making people feel like idiots if they want to move out? By the time someone posts a "My Ohio Dear Jane letter" - they've already made the decision to leave. No one's comments about them being "stupid" or a "fool" or having doors hit their a*s will change that.
As for fact #l, hooray. Again, many people have done this, not just you.
Fact #2-Miss Donna7, I was in Barberton March, 2009, I stopped and ate at Arthur Treacher's. I was all through that general area. Carrollton, New Philly, Dover, Barberton, and numerous towns.
Fact #4- I moved out of Ohio 10 years ago when the economy was decent. Born and raised in Cleveland, I am 53, so dont spout to me about taxes and school systems. I did my fair share. I left Ohio for the adventure.
Fact#5- I never said dont let the door hit you in the as* but when others defend Ohio, it is their right also. And yes you sound ANGRY because you obviously feel trapped. I've noted it also in your other posts.
And BTW we are returning to Ohio (GASP) this summer.
Also my family has been in Ohio much longer than 40 years.
Last edited by Alaskapat528; 06-13-2010 at 03:44 PM..
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
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I never lived in Ohio, but I visited my Brother and his family in Ashland,OH. in 2006. I flew from Ontario, Ca. to Columbus, OH. then rented a car.
I was born and raised on a Dairy Farm in NW Michigan, so I never did care for big cities.
I drove through OH. PA, and up to the Mackinaw Straights in Mi. making stops along the way to visit those I hadn't seen for decades.
IMO, I think Ohio has some beautiful farm country. But that's just my opinion.
I ran into some Amish people in PA, and I heard they were in OH, too but never came across any.
I never lived in Ohio, but I visited my Brother and his family in Ashland,OH. in 2006. I flew from Ontario, Ca. to Columbus, OH. then rented a car.
I was born and raised on a Dairy Farm in NW Michigan, so I never did care for big cities.
I drove through OH. PA, and up to the Mackinaw Straights in Mi. making stops along the way to visit those I hadn't seen for decades.
IMO, I think Ohio has some beautiful farm country. But that's just my opinion.
I ran into some Amish people in PA, and I heard they were in OH, too but never came across any.
Yes MK lots of Amish in Ohio. I find that every State has it's own beauty. It's not all bleak and ugly as some posters would have you believe.
As for fact #l, hooray. Again, many people have done this, not just you.
Fact #2-Miss Donna7, I was in Barberton March, 2009, I stopped and ate at Arthur Treacher's. I was all through that general area. Carrollton, New Philly, Dover, Barberton, and numerous towns.
Fact #4- I moved out of Ohio 10 years ago when the economy was decent. Born and raised in Cleveland, I am 53, so dont spout to me about taxes and school systems. I did my fair share. I left Ohio for the adventure.
Fact#5- I never said dont let the door hit you in the as* but when others defend Ohio, it is their right also. And yes you sound ANGRY because you obviously feel trapped. I've noted it also in your other posts.
And BTW we are returning to Ohio (GASP) this summer.
Also my family has been in Ohio much longer than 40 years.
Alaskapat,
To clarify one point, I never ever said or thought that you were the poster who said, "don't let the door hit your a*s on your way out." I know that was not you, that was someone else on this thread. I apologize if you thought that I was referring to you; I was not.
As far as everything else, I'm finished here. You know more and better than me so have at it, Hoss (joking). Anything I say, you have a counter for it including your one up-man ship about the "my family has been in Ohio much longer than 40 years." Well, guess what? My family came here in 1968 on a plane, not in 1620 on the Mayflower so I defer to your highness and superiority. And by the way, when I said, "my family", I was speaking specifically about my mom, my brother, and me, not my ancestors. But you know what? Who cares. That's the problem on these boards; if someone doesn't like someone else's message they attack the messenger personally. No, you didn't do it initially; it was a few other people. That's why it's best to stay off these boards because unless one is willing to conform to the "groupthink", then one takes the chance of being personally attacked. Oh, I know that that's not supposed to happen, but as I've said before on another thread, this Ohio forum seems to let things like that slide...and the perpetrators seem to be able to intimidate and bully those who do not adhere to their viewpoints. This is what I hate the most.
1. I lost the corporate job I had due to a buy-out and subsequent closure of my employer's corporate engineering and research / development centers. Had a nice severance package and a full year of unemployment plus TRA/TAA out of that, though.
2. Suddenly managed to dump my house, at the price I wanted, just before the market tanked. Got over $30k profit out of that sale but on the condition that I be out in less than 30 days.
3. Called movers and scheduled. Took part of my stuff on a U-Haul, put the rest in commercial storage, and moved back here. At the time, I did have relatives including nieces and nephews in the area. But they flew the coop for better opportunities down South, within one year of when I moved.
4. Found a new job here almost right away. It was something totally new, but using transferable skills. It was like the wild, wild, west, lol. Never a dull moment, and totally fun. Manufacturing, and I loved all the machinery and huge trucks and the heavy industry and the total lack of "women's issues" since I was the only woman there. Didn't have to retrain, had profit sharing, 401k, great Blue Cross / Blue Shield health, disability pay if I'd ever needed it, made over $48k per year without the OT, and didn't have to hear any stupid small town mommy stories the whole time I worked there. Then, that manufacturer was bought out, and production shifted to their existing factory, and after that, the financing crisis cut the legs out from under the rest of it.
So, does that explain it? I'll be moving again, BTW. Forward ever, backward never. Let the hausfraus have the stay-at-home-breedin-life. It's just too dull for me here now. Stupid little small towns and dumb jobs for housewives. Ya can see why that cr*p is of no interest to me. I'm used to an interesting life.
Often, I don't think the people who have stayed in the same place for decades actually don't notice the gradual decline. They are rather blinded by loyalty or memories or hope or fimily ties or whatever. Or, in the case of Shenango Valley family people, I think that most of them just stay out in Hermitage and never crawl around Farrell or Sharon or Youngstown, so their picture of life here is bliss, because they just don't see the smarmy side and they ignore the decline because it's not in Hermitage. But for the younger people, they have to be brutally honest about the actual opportunities that exist for them in any given locale. They are looking for growth, or at least arrested decline, and I don't think there are a lot of bright spots in the old Rust Belt. Now, the baby boomers and the elderly people might have lots to lose, but for a young person who wants the best career opportunities or a "guarantee" that the house he or she will continue to hold its value and that the neighborhood will continue to be a desirable racial or socioeconomic demographic, these old decaying towns up here just don't have that to offer the way that the newer growth areas do. There's no guarantee that those areas will grow, but they are at least 30-40 years behind Y-Town and Cleveland regarding the kickoff of decline.
Last edited by SorryIMovedBack; 06-13-2010 at 09:02 PM..
I just cannot get over the "tattoo hate". Are you kidding me?
The OP was mostly referring to Barber-tucky. You are refering to Youngstown. No offense to either of those areas... but come on. Youngstown? Barberton?
Walk around downtown Cleveland, Cincy, Columbus, Toledo. Count the tattos you see. Walk around the suburban areas of any of those areas. Count the tattoos.
Ridiculous....
I try to never call people names on internet forums. Let me just say there are some real morons on these forums and leave it at that....
Tatts? Yeah, as a matter of fact I DO hate them. Tramp stamp is a good moniker. Aside from the self-mutilation issue, I don't think any or many of the tatt pigments are tested or regulated for chemical content. We continue to see lead, cadmium, radioactivity, melamine, etc. contaminating loads of imported junk from China. I see no reason to have some yay-hoo on the street corner inject my body's largest organ with unknown chemical content. I also see no reason to permanently ink my body with "last year's blouse," so to speak. And when I am 80, I can rest assured that I will not be some wrinkled old tattooed hag lurching around the dance floor to "Do It In The Butt." Capice? Who looks like a moron now.
Isn't Columbus full of young, professional types??? Actually most of the people i know in Columbus are from the Youngstown area, so apparently we aren't all uneducated, tatooed former factory workers. I in fact i have BBA in Management, worked in a factory for almost 8 years and have a professional job just south of Youngstown.
Most of my friends dress well, have degrees and have good jobs. My boyfriend is a general manager at a golf course, my well dressed 32 year old, good looking, single friend works for an architecture firm in downtown youngstown. I have other friends that work in sales, management, contracting, etc. All of them live in the Youngstown area. I'm not saying the tatooed uneducated bunch isn't here, we have those types, but please acknowledge the decent hardworking people here!
There wouldn't be over 500k people living in the Youngstown metro if most of us didn't have jobs. Sure we might have to commute a little further and many of us worked in factories, but that doesn't mean we're stupid. In fact when i worked my factory job many of my coworkers had associates, or bachelor's degrees or had a journeyman's card. I am appalled by stereotype that all factory workers are uneducated, tatooed, motorcycle riding, terribly dressed individuals that have no worth and are sucking from white collar america. You might be describing your uncle or weird cousin that worked in a factory in Cleveland, Youngstown, or Akron, but the rest of us former factory workers will hold on to our dignity. We had jobs that created wealth and if you think the service jobs down south, healthcare jobs, etc are going to bring this country back you've been sucking on the crackpipe a little too long. Service jobs and this new economy are killing this country, people are just exchanging money and debt. When a society builds or makes something, that is when wealth is created, those good paying jobs support other good paying jobs and those employees spend their money buying things, eating out, etc so all the service workers can keep their jobs too! Please tell my house an $8/hr job is supporting anyone??? Someone making that kind of money is probably getting foodstamps and or assistance, plus section 8 housing. Why do i say that? because i work in the service industry now where most of our employees make $8/hr, they're on welfare, foodstamps, etc and they're working 40 hours a week, busting their butts with no recognition. Sad world we live in.........
As a single childess woman who is here by herself, I don't have a whole lot of avenues into the world of those small town stay-home "decent hardworking people." Also, I am a Protestant, and Shenango Valley is like 95% Catholic or so it seems, and the Protestant churches are primarily full of elderly and the other extreme, 20-somethings with kids in tow, so there's really no way to meet people because this area is too rural and does not have a thriving downtown hangout for age 40 & up. As a single woman, there are boatloads of things that you'll never get invited to in a small town, it's family life or couple's events, and because you will be seen as a threat, doubly so if you come in a paid-for $50k truck and wearing a 2ct diamond, and you don't NEED a man to support you, and you don't have any debts, or kids, or ... See where that's going?
"I am appalled by stereotype that all factory workers are uneducated, tatooed, motorcycle riding, terribly dressed individuals that have no worth and are sucking from white collar america. " Great. That makes at least two of us who are sane enough to be appalled. Take a lil' trip through the streets of West Hill of Sharon. Sit at the Sharon CareerLink and tell me what you see. You can be a laborer and a gentleman, or you can be a do-rag tattooed freak show. Guess which one I see the most of in the singles pool of Shenango Valley. Guess which I met the most of in my manufacturing job. It's like herd mentality.
Cleveland, Youngstown, or Akron: Not my relatives. We've been here since Colonial days. All my relatives starting in the early 20th century were prosperous farmers who sent all their children even daughters to college before WWI, as in 1912 - 1917, so in my immediate family, I can only think of two of us who have had careers related to manufacturing. Others are teachers, coal mine bosses, business owners, insurance and financiers, ag limestone plant owner, a NYC Ziegfield Girl, and a movie producer / Broadway financier / Wall Street financier. There are still a couple of farmers and truck drivers in there, maybe a union boilermaker or two if they haven't retired yet. But with IOs in the 130 & up range, they all know how to dress and act, and they blend quite well and move around in society without making carnival do-rag counter-culture spectacles of themselves.
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I suggest you try walking in their shoes for awhile before you judge them so harshly. And, you seem to believe these conditions are just a local phenomenon.
But that's just my opinion. 
