Information about the streetcar? (Oklahoma City, Tulsa: condo, employment, transfer)

[stuckinsj]

Out of state person here. I m looking for local info on the streetcar project for OKC. I looked at the website and like the project in theory. Just wanted to get local's opinions on it. Do you think its a good idea or bad? GOod Route or bad? Is it really getting built now? If there is not a thread on the progress of the project maybe this would be a good place.


Thanks in advance

[stiffnecked]

It's an absolute waste of taxpayer dollars. OKC needs to first improve their city bus service and build more sidewalks instead of wasting money on a project like this that will benefit so few.

[flyingcat2k]

The streetcar is pretty controversial in OKC. Some people think it will fall flat and others think it will be a success. I think if they can run a line from downtown OKC to Edmond with stops at the Capitol, I think it would work but the route they have now is a sop to the Capitol crowd. They are in the study phase right now, last I read on NewsOK: Oklahoma City News, Sports, Weather, Business & Entertainment OKC. I don't know if a 5-6 mile system just for downtown OKC and the Capitol will work because OKC has such a low downtown residential base. It is growing and affluent but it isn't nearly as large as downtown Denver had when it's light-rail system started. It is also missing the student population component which the Denver system had from the beginning.

Personally, I am not a fan of buses because they are in the main flow of traffic. Mass transit works best when it is removed from the traffic flow and moves quickly, like a light rail, subway or dedicated streetcar lane. Conservatives always wants to promote busses, and living in a huge GOP town like Colorado Springs, I will tell you they promote busses but then defund them the second they implement them. They claim that nobody is on them as when they see them out in suburbia, they are. If they worked downtown, like I do, they'd find them at least half full when pulling into the main transfer station.

Tulsa is trying a rapid bus route instead with similar goals but is 1/10th the cost. It will be an interesting comparison between the two cities. Neither plan is isolated from the traffic flow. OKC is implementing it in a very small area with a small residential population, large working population but a lot of attractions. Tulsa is essentially linking the North and South halves of Tulsa with a single rapid bus line, 20% of the jobs in the city, a lot of attractions and with over 125,000 residential population within a 10 minute walk of the route.

[flintysooner]

I notice very little interest let alone controversy about either the streetcar or this MAPS in general.

There certainly is a small but vocal opposition to this MAPS including the streetcar. This group is joined by another small group that opposes everything. The only real organized group that I notice is the fire and police unions. Less organized is a city councilman and a handful of his supporters. I will be surprised if the opposition comes to much.

At the other end is a small but growing group of people interested in the health of the urban core. These people have really spent enormous time educating themselves and attempting to educate the rest of us about urban transit as well as urban concepts in general. We are pretty hard to educate but many of us place a good deal of trust in this group.

Most of us generally support MAPS at least to the end of the current one and therefore we generally support the various pieces including the streetcar. Even those of us who figure we will probably never ever ride the thing.

There have been and continue to be plenty of opportunities for people to join in and work on the planning. Like so many things most people do not choose to participate. But in this case I think those who have participated have done a really good job.

My opinions of course.

[#1soonerfan]

Flintysooner's post is spot on.

The streetcar is not as near as controversial as some would like to claim it to be. Most of the voices against it are affiliated with some guy on the council trying to run for mayor. Actually, the route was approved by the city a few weeks ago and the initial construction contracts should be let in the next few months. So yes this is not just in theory. I know they want to begin construction sometime in the next year or 2. The beauty of MAPS3 is all projects are "pay as you go" so absent some huge economic decline--and frankly you never know--the funding is already secure.

I have been following this closely as my condo building is on the approved route. We have already received notices from the city notifying us of construction. As it stands now, the route will connect downtown, midtown, and bricktown, all large employment and business centers. And these areas are rapidly filling in with residential construction. Contrary to a previous post, the current route goes nowhere near the capitol, but proposals have been floated to build a future connection to that area and OUHSC. While I have no doubt it will be a big success as it has been in other cities, there's always a risk of cost overruns that could cause them to trim back the route.

I should also add the streetcar is seen as the first major component of a larger regional mass transit system. There are proposals to build a commuter line from Norman and Edmond to downtown OKC in the next 10-20 years. Plus, there is a lot of momentum to expand the Amtrak Heartland Flyer to either Tulsa or into Kansas.

[okie1962]

Originally Posted by #1soonerfan

Flintysooner's post is spot on.

The streetcar is not as near as controversial as some would like to claim it to be. Most of the voices against it are affiliated with some guy on the council trying to run for mayor. Actually, the route was approved by the city a few weeks ago and the initial construction contracts should be let in the next few months. So yes this is not just in theory. I know they want to begin construction sometime in the next year or 2. The beauty of MAPS3 is all projects are "pay as you go" so absent some huge economic decline--and frankly you never know--the funding is already secure.

I have been following this closely as my condo building is on the approved route. We have already received notices from the city notifying us of construction. As it stands now, the route will connect downtown, midtown, and bricktown, all large employment and business centers. And these areas are rapidly filling in with residential construction. Contrary to a previous post, the current route goes nowhere near the capitol, but proposals have been floated to build a future connection to that area and OUHSC. While I have no doubt it will be a big success as it has been in other cities, there's always a risk of cost overruns that could cause them to trim back the route.

I should also add the streetcar is seen as the first major component of a larger regional mass transit system. There are proposals to build a commuter line from Norman and Edmond to downtown OKC in the next 10-20 years. Plus, there is a lot of momentum to expand the Amtrak Heartland Flyer to either Tulsa or into Kansas.

It will be years if ever until Tulsa see any rail service. The state has sold or is in the process of selling the railroad line between Tulsa and OKC that they were planning on using for passenger service. The State of Oklahoma could careless if Tulsa gets train service, they seem more concerned about getting train service to Wichita.

[flyingcat2k]

I did not realize that the controversy is being loudly stirred by the neighborhood crank who doesn't really care for anything new. I will still be interested to see how both projects pan out. I don't think a streetcar that neither goes to the Capitol nor UCO or OKCU is really going to take off. It has to start somewhere though.