Oklahoma City or Phoenix, AZ? (Norman, Stillwater: how much, home, high school)

[n8tiv_okie]

Originally Posted by ELOrocks17

Oklahoma is a dream compared to the nightmare that is Phoenix. Take it from me--I've lived in Phx for over 30 years. Here is why Phx sucks:

1. in 2006, Phx had over 24,000 car thefts, over 230 murders, and over 16,000 burglaries.
2. bieng covered in blowing dust constantly
3. Rude people
4. wall to wall illegals who dont speak English
5. HOT, HOT, HOT
6. Right to work state (employers can fire you at will)
7. HUGE air pollution problem
8.traffic is ridiculous.

Need I say more?

I know the reasons for this....all of the people who couldn't afford to live in California anymore packed up their junk and moved to Phoenix.

If I lived anywhere in Arizona, it wouldn't be Phoenix. Tucson maybe. I had a job offer a few years ago to work for the Phoenix Coyotes. I almost accepted it until I researched the cost-of-living compared to the salary they offered. Hard to live out there on little more than what I make here where it's cheaper to live.

[azriverfan.]

Not to be rude, but the responses from people like Nameless, Elrocks etc. are completely baseless and inaccurate. Oklahoma City cannot compare to Phoenx in any regard. People compare Phoenix to Seattle or LA not OKC; it's even in the running as far as most people are concerned. Where do I begin, it's flat while Phoenix is surrounded by mountains hence the reason it's called a valley. Most of the responses have been from people who have never been to Phoenix because they assume it's just a big desert are unaware it's surrounded by mountains and isn't flat. You can rock climb, go snow skiing in the winter, and go mountain biking among other things. Oklahoma has no real mountains and the Arbuckles are not real mountains. The last I checked, there were no ski resorts on the Ouchitas and Arbuckles. I didn't see several people rock climbing or mountain biking those "mountains" Give me a break. I still laugh when some of the people have the audacity to even use the word mountain in regards to those hills. Oklahoma does have a lot of lakes but there are no mountains there by any means. And yes, we have mountains in the city of Phoenix as well. The poster "Nameless" is completely wrong and has obviously never been to Phoenix because anyone who has spent any time in Phoenix is aware of CAMELBACK mountain which is in the heart of the city and its one of the first things you see as you land in Phoenix. There is also South Mountain and Squaw peak. There is also Fountain Hills which is as far from Phoenix as Edmond is from OKC and it's essentially in the mountains.

There are no singles and not much of a dating culture in Oklahoma City. Most Oklahomans get married right after college. A lot of them are high school sweetheart who attend the same college and then get married or more commonly, they will meet in their freshmen and sophmore year of college and then get married after graduation. That has a lot to do with their conservative family values. And until Bricktown developed in the last 6 years, there was no urban core that had a lot of bars and dance clubs in which people 23 or older could mingle. There are a lot of bars in Norman on the OU campus but again that refers to the college crowd.

Oklahoma was losing people for years. In the last 3 years, there has been growth there due to its low cost of living. I have family in Oklahoma City and their houses have not appreciated in value over the last 15 years and they live in Nichols Hills. Quite frankly people who don't have a lot of money and can't afford to live in Phoenix any longer move to OKC because you can still buy a home there for a 150K. You can buy a mansion in OKC for 400K. A big reason there cost of living is low is because the demand to live there is weak. The cost of living is dirt cheap there for a reason. Phoenix was the fastest or second fastest growing city in the entire country for the last 15 years. Houses appreciated in value by nearly 3 fold in that time because the demand to live there was so strong. Even during this housing recession, Phoenix is still one of the top 5 fastest growing cities in the country. Most of the Phoenix horror stories you have heard of are not in the metropolitan area. They are in Queen Creek, Maricopa and cities on the far outskirts of the city. That would be like saying Oklahoma City's growth is dwindling because Guthrie lost population.

Oklahoma City is the Bible Belt. There is a heavy Christian influence there. Yeah, living and socializing with them is fine. However, if you wnt to date or get involved in a relationship with someone there and you aren't Christian, you will have problems. If you are not very religious or agnostic, it's hard to date in Oklahoma because a lot of the girls are still hardcore Christian even if they drink and go out socially. They still want to marry a Christian or have you convert. And these are the girls who are still available and there aren't many of them after the age of 23. If you venture just outside of Oklahoma City, a lot of people will discrimate against you if you aren't Christian. I had so many people tell me that I needed to be saved. I got a lot of annoying invitations to come to church. Phoenix is a normal city that has many singles that are not very religious. I had no problem dating in Phoenix but Oklahoma City was a challenge. And nearly everyone I knew in Oklahoma is affilated with a church in some manner regardless if they are Baptist.

Make no mistake, Oklahoma City is the South. Even if you want to argue it's not a true part of the South, it's culture for all intents and purposes is southern. It's not as extreme as Mississippi or Georgia but it's still southern in most ways. Country music is huge there. You can still get Chicken Fried steak, fried okra and fried catfish nearly everywhere. Barbeque is huge with great places like the County Line, Vans Pig Stand etc. People have definitely have accents and a drawl to their speech. Football is a religion there and the whole "Friday Night Lights" concept is very much alive in Oklahoma. Phoenix is a west coast city for all intents and purposes. It's a 5 hr drive from LA, a 3.5 hr drive from Palm Springs, and 1.5 drive to the California border. Phoenix isn't as liberal as LA but it's much more liberal and diverse than Oklahoma City to say the least.

Oklahoma City and Oklahoma is racist. Oklahomans don't think of themselves as racist because to them racist people use the N word, are a part of the KKK or skinhead group and waive rebel flags. In Oklahoma, the racism is subtle yet there. A lot of the Native Americans would always insist they were only half or a quarter Native American and were almost ashamed of their Indian heritage. They would always try to say they were more white than Indian as if it were a plague. Oklahomans also seemed to frown on interracial relationships. I noticed they were okay with Blacks and Hispanics as long as they didn't date white people. I know a lot of Okahomans who would tell me that it was wrong for a Black and White to marry because their children would be confused about their identity. I know a lot of Oklahomans who would tell me their parents would kill them if they dated or married an African American. And these were not rednecks. These were doctors, lawyers and people from well off families, many of them were religious Baptist families.

I worked with a lot of Asian Americans when I worked at the Health Sciences Center. These guys were born and raised in the United States and were as American as you or I yet they were treated like foreigners They would get asked the most retarded questions on a routine basis. They would be asked why they didn't have an accent even after the Asian doctor told them they were born and raised in the U.S.A. The Oklahomans just couldn't grasp how a guy who was not white could speak without an accent. They would also get asked why they had a name like Chris when they were Japanese. They would get asked if they were related to any random Asian person they knew even if they looked nothing alike. They also got a lot of the Asian doctors confused with another despite having major differences in height, skin color and facial features. They were just ignorant and assumed if you were Indian, Chinese, Korean or Japanese, that you al looked alike and were somehow related to one aonther. This was a daily occurrence at OU.

The police were also racist. My gosh, the police in Oklahoma were the biggest good ole boys who would pull you over for nothing. They were always scary because they were rude and condescending. I got pulled over 3 times in a one year period in OKC. I've never been pulled over and given a speeding ticket in Phoenix. The cops in Phoenix don't harrass the everyday law abiding citizens because they have more important matters to deal with. When OU beat Nebraska in 2000, the fans stormed the field and the Norman cops maced the oncoming crowd. That's the type of mentality of thei police there. You couldn't drive in OKC without worry about some good ole boy cop pulling you over for going 10 over the speed limit. I'm serious, I got a ticket for going 75 in a 65 zone. Yeah, that's Oklahoma for you. In Phoenix, the police are down to earth. They don't speak down to you and don't wear those silly cowboy hat/wide brimmed hats.

In terms of activities, there are no professional sports teams. The only sporting event they have that is worth a darn are the Oklahoma Sooners football team. That's all they have. There are lakes in Oklahoma, but you have drive at least 2 hours to get any lake that's big enough to go skiing such as Grand Lake, Eufala, or 10-killer. I didn't even like Bricktown because the people who did frequent the bars and clubs were trashy because most of the normal and professional youth were already married by their mid-20s. Norman was fun but again, it was for college students. Phoenix not only has Tempe which is better than Norman but it has Phoenix, Scottsdale and North Scottsdale for single people in their mid 20's to early 30's to enjoy. There are lakes outside of Phoenix like Lake Powel that you don't need to drive hours to get to.

Oklahoma also has all these crazy laws. For example, Oklahoma is the only state that has granted Optometrist the right to do Lasik procedures. Who would you rather have do your laser eye surgery, a guy who trained for 9 years post college and got into one of the most competitive medical subspecialties or a guy who went to school for 4 years and took another 2 years in "courses" Their hospitals are also have several CRNAs, and Nurse Practioners in OKC. Sorry but if I'm getting a surgery, i want a full fledged anesthesiologist caring for my vital signs instead of a nurse. They also had weird liquor-by-the-drink laws. The tax setup is horrible for small business there.

The weather in Oklahoma is arguably the worst in the country. The summers are hot and humid. 100 degrees in Oklahoma City is worse than a 114 in Phoenix. And Oklahoma's winters are bad. They get a lot of golf ball sized hale and ice storms. The wind makes the weather so much cooler. It can be 45 degrees in Oklahoma but the wind can make it feel like it's 25. Phoenix is not windy so 55 degrees is 55 degrees on a cold day. Oklahoma also gets several tornadoes and you can't watch TV without CBS Gary Englund interupting a show telling people to go to their basement because of an ensuing tornado. Phoenix has no natural disasters. We have no tornadoes, earthquakes, snow storms, and hurricanes thus we don't have power outages that last for hours to days that sometimes occur in Oklahoma City.

Oklahoma is also in the middle of nowhere. People in Oklahoma City love Dallas and it's like going to New York for them. It was so funny to hear people in Oklahoma City talk about moving to Dallas as if it were a dream come true for them. In Phoenix, we are hours from Los Angelas, San Diego and Las Vegas not to mention Rocky Point Mexico. You can drive to San Diego and back on a weekend in Phoenix. Where are you going to go to from Oklahoma City...Kansas City or Dallas?

I'm sorry but this is just my view. If I have offended anyone, I apologize but passionately opposed to Oklahoma City and can't believe this the OP even questioned OKC vs. Phoenix. Out of respect to the members of this forum and the moderator, I will not respond to anyone's replies to my post should they make them. Since I took my shots at Oklahoma City, you are entitled to take your shots at my response. I will respect any criticism you direct toward me or my post. If I can dish it out, I should be able to take it. There is nothing wrong with Oklahoma if you want a conservative small town atmosphere with less diversity, less culture and less things to do. Yeah, it offers a cheaper cost of living and less headaches associated with a large city like crime and traffic. Otherwise, it's a joke to even compare OKC to Phoenix.

[colleeng47]

I'm so glad you posted that. It just reminds me why I prefer Oklahoma to Phoenix (where I lived for a year and a half).

As I said on another thread, it's a good thing not everyone wants to live in the same place -- it would get very crowded.

Have a great day

[Synopsis]

That was such a rant! I'm going to leave it up so that everyone can see that there are some very simple thinkers out there.

PS. I've always defended Phoenix from the bashers on the Phoenix forum, and will continue to do so because the drivel that they post bashing Phoenix is almost as bad as your simplistic view of OkC and Oklahoma in general.

[StillwaterTownie]

As a native born Oklahoman I must say that I find azriverfan's comments about Oklahoma and Oklahoma City to be for the most part all too true for comfort. For instance, the only interracial married couples I ever knew of came from and were married from out of state.

I'll tell you one thing for sure, if Oklahoma actually loses yet another congressman after the 2010 census is taken, one only needs to consult azriverfan's comments to start getting clued in as to why it had to happen. And no, Synopsis, he's not a simple thinker at all. His problem was that he came across too many simple thinkers while he was in Oklahoma. If we absolutely refuse to learn from outsiders like him and stick our heads in the sand or stick our fingers in our ears in response, then we'll all suffer from it as Oklahomans. Hopefully, changing our attitudes and preconceptions can't be as impossible as changing our landscape and climate.

[StillwaterTownie]

Originally Posted by rimmin

There is nothing worthwhile about oklahoma...this place is the utter bottom of the barrel

Hey, it sure as hell beats Kansas, especially Garden City and Dodge City where you have to put up with lots of cow stink in the air and people who don't speak English well. Try traveling across western Kansas as I've done several times and you might appreciate Oklahoma better.

[flintysooner]

Hate is a very strong emotion. It is pervasive and unrelenting and expands to fully occupy any space it touches.

The only antidote I've found is love.

[Synopsis]

Originally Posted by StillwaterTownie

As a native born Oklahoman I must say that I find azriverfan's comments about Oklahoma and Oklahoma City to be for the most part all too true for comfort. For instance, the only interracial married couples I ever knew of came from and were married from out of state.

I'll tell you one thing for sure, if Oklahoma actually loses yet another congressman after the 2010 census is taken, one only needs to consult azriverfan's comments to start getting clued in as to why it had to happen. And no, Synopsis, he's not a simple thinker at all. His problem was that he came across too many simple thinkers while he was in Oklahoma. If we absolutely refuse to learn from outsiders like him and stick our heads in the sand or stick our fingers in our ears in response, then we'll all suffer from it as Oklahomans. Hopefully, changing our attitudes and preconceptions can't be as impossible as changing our landscape and climate.

Oklahoma has a lot of issues like any other state but his rant was way over to top.

[colleeng47]

Syn, you have to feel a little sorry for someone with so much venom in his post. I'm sure he's a unhappy person, and when he read the title of this thread, it touched (for whatever reason) a nerve, and he felt the need to respond.

Those of us who are happy here, don't need to have our faces rubbed in whatever shortcomings he perceives. The only perfect place is Heaven -- and I'm not quite ready yet.

[Synopsis]

Originally Posted by colleeng47

Syn, you have to feel a little sorry for someone with so much venom in his post. I'm sure he's a unhappy person, and when he read the title of this thread, it touched (for whatever reason) a nerve, and he felt the need to respond.

Those of us who are happy here, don't need to have our faces rubbed in whatever shortcomings he perceives. The only perfect place is Heaven -- and I'm not quite ready yet.

Very true Colleen. Several parts of his post were accurate, but that amount of venom was uncalled for. I've been all over the world and in many states; no place is perfect. But to go on a rant about how Oklahoma is the most miserable place on earth is just too much.

I visit the AZ forums quite a bit and AZ gets bashed probably more so than any other state, and undeservedly so. The state has every type of climate you can think of and is one of the most beautiful in the country.

I think the poster is a little touchy on the subject of Phoenix. It does get razzed quite a bit.