California Earthquake (Oklahoma City: real estate, appraiser, tornado)

[Goodpasture]

Originally Posted by Hallway

1. "Mostly" is the key.

Isn't that the case with EVERY natural occurrence? Why would tornadoes be any exception to everything else?

Originally Posted by Hallway

The May 3, 1999 tornado made a sudden turn. Had it not done so, I probably would not be here to write this today. Three of our other houses would have been destroyed. One was anyway.

Turns happen.....some days you are the windshield, some days you are the bug........

Originally Posted by Hallway

2. Tornadoes get everyone in their path.

The key phrase is "in their path" and that path is generally pretty narrow, rarely more than a mile wide, frequently less than 100 yards. And even when in their path you can get lucky and they pull up, go over you, and set back down half a mile down the road.

Originally Posted by Hallway

3. Unfortunately, that is true... Somewhat. Around the depression era and before, many homes DID have basements. Lower end homes, no. The movement away from basements was a huge mistake. Basements should be required by code.

There are lots of areas where basements would have to be dug with dynamite. Further, the high clay content will destroy most basement walls in short order unless they are built with fairly expensive techniques and materials. For about half the price of a well engineered basement, complete with sump pump and other high water table issues, you can build an additional story that IS part of GLA and is counted at full value, while the basement is considered below grade and is discounted. (ANSI Z765-2300 Square Footage-Method for Calculating) Basements do not make economic sense in Oklahoma.

Originally Posted by Hallway

FYI. Some tornadoes defy the warnings. Both positive and negative. Although rare, it happens. Example is above.

Exactly

[Hallway]

Originally Posted by Goodpasture

Isn't that the case with EVERY natural occurrence? Why would tornadoes be any exception to everything else?


Turns happen.....some days you are the windshield, some days you are the bug........


The key phrase is "in their path" and that path is generally pretty narrow, rarely more than a mile wide, frequently less than 100 yards. And even when in their path you can get lucky and they pull up, go over you, and set back down half a mile down the road.

There are lots of areas where basements would have to be dug with dynamite. Further, the high clay content will destroy most basement walls in short order unless they are built with fairly expensive techniques and materials. For about half the price of a well engineered basement, complete with sump pump and other high water table issues, you can build an additional story that IS part of GLA and is counted at full value, while the basement is considered below grade and is discounted. (ANSI Z765-2300 Square Footage-Method for Calculating) Basements do not make economic sense in Oklahoma.

Exactly

You are VERY wrong. Basements make a lot of economic sense. It only cost $10,000 extra to add a basement to the house my wife and I are building. We signed a contract to build a new house about two weeks before lighting destroyed the current one. $10,000 on a $500,000 investment is a VERY small amount to pay.

I know. You will have a rebuttal. However, no matter the cost of the house, it is a wise investment.

And about your water table myth. How deep is a swimming pool? Think about that.

[colleeng47]

Originally Posted by Hallway

$10,000 on a $500,000 investment is a VERY small amount to pay.

Not everyone in Oklahoma is building a $500,000 house.

[Hallway]

Originally Posted by colleeng47

Not everyone in Oklahoma is building a $500,000 house.

Yes. That's true. However, even if they spent $100,000 it would be worth the investment. $10,000 to shelter from tornadoes is a small price to pay.

You are probably thinking why not a safe room or a torando shelter. The safe room is nearly as much to build as the basement and you get less storage space or remodel space. And the shelter is usually outside which takes time to enter. A basement is only a staircase below the house.

[mkfarnam]

In the N.W part of Mi, where I was born and raised and is also consider part of tornado alley, back in the 60's+. almost every house was built with a basement. They even had what was called "Basement Houses".

[LadyRobyn]

Originally Posted by colleeng47

Not everyone in Oklahoma is building a $500,000 house.

No kidding! That would be one HECK of an upgrade to our $22,000 place! Doubt we could make that much back selling it either.

[Hallway]

Originally Posted by LadyRobyn

No kidding! That would be one HECK of an upgrade to our $22,000 place! Doubt we could make that much back selling it either.

How long ago was this "$22,000 place" built? 1960?

[Goodpasture]

Originally Posted by Hallway

You are VERY wrong.

No, YOU are very wrong. You are so wrong as to be misleading and it makes the rest of your comments lack credibility.

If it made economic sense, basements would be common. Builders aren't in it for their health. They are in it for the profit. And if there was a demand for them, and they contributed more than the cost of construction, then they would be common. If you are building a house that costs $500,000 then you are not a typical buyer as $500,000 houses are less than one percent of the market. The average buyer in Oklahoma does not pay $10,000 for a safe room or a storm shelter, their contributory value, as indicated by paired sales analysis, is less than $3,000. In much of Oklahoma that $10,000 would not pay for a basement of any kind other than a high end 5 x 6 semi buried shelter.Typically, according to a local concrete contractor, a basement, unfinished, costs $15 to $20 per square foot. It will cost another $60 per square foot to finish it (according to both Marshall and Swift Residential Costs Data Service and the National Construction Estimator). That is $75 to $80 psf for a basement that has the strong potential for leakage, that can build up substantial exterior hydrostatic pressure, that can generate a substantial amount of mold, and that can be damaged by either a dry or wet year where clay substrates can exert 100 times the design strength of a typical basement. In the past year I have appraised three houses with basements. In all there there was evidence of frequent standing water, two of them had substantial standing water in them when I inspected them and one had mud marks six inches on the wall. They all had evidence of black mold.

Explain to me why any moron will pay $80 a foot for a potential health hazard when for less money they can have a second story or a larger single story house?

[colleeng47]

Originally Posted by Hallway

Anyone with "pasture" in their screen name has NO merit. The reason basements are not common are people like you who have this mythical mindset that basements can not be safely built in Oklahoma. They can. I don't care what you say, or who you THINK you are. They are VERY safe. I suggest tossing out that 1950's era textbook and doing some modern research. Regardless, I would rather be safe in my basement than risk getting plastered by not having enough time to get into that ugly hole in someone's backyard. Plus, just ask the rest of the country about resale value.

You are NOT going to convince me you are right because I KNOW you are not!

Whoa! You have a real anger problem here sir. Please feel free to post again after you've been in your $500,000 house (with basement) for about 10 years.

[Hallway]

Originally Posted by colleeng47

Whoa! You have a real anger problem here sir. Please feel free to post again after you've been in your $500,000 house (with basement) for about 10 years.

No anger problem here. Just a problem with people that will not accept someone who has done extensive research into myths that most Oklahomans think are still accurate.

I will add the following.

In my area, bedrock is about 15 feet down. The basement will be dug nine feet and the rest will be deep trenches. When I designed the house, the engineer and I decided the best way to avoid foundation failure (which is common in Oklahoma City especially since code only requires around a two foot footing), was to do one of two things. Either call Ram Jack or Olshan and install piers or to place the foundation on bedrock. It cost a small amount more to just dig a basement and secure it. The modern methods of basement construction are so good, the basements are water tight, cool in the summer and warm in the winter. It's not like the old days when the typical basement (anywhere in the nation) was a wet, damp mold incubator.

The basement will be finished into a two bedroom apartment which we are giving to my wife's surrogate brother for a small rental fee plus some specialty work he does. Several Realtors and builders have told me the value will rise, not go down. I will EASILY recoup my investment. Plus, the actual cost for the house WITH basement is actually less than the 30 year old house that was destroyed.

This was very well researched, and planned. I recommend some research, and maybe those obsolete ideas will change... Knowing the typical rural minded Okie I have my doubts, however.