Cost of Living Shakeout (Tulsa, Howe: cul-de-sac, sales, rent)

[cobolt]

I am currently living in WA state and planning my escape. I moved here almost 4 years ago from the TX Panhandle, and although I like the Tx Panhandle very much, OKC offers much more in the way of employment. In fact I could probably get a company transfer there.

So my question isn't about the weather or the people or your normal set of questions, because I know all that already. I used to drill with the Air National Guard in Tulsa, so I was in and through OK quite a bit and still have some miltary friends in TUL.

Aside from being close to my Tx friends, my bias towards TX is there is no state income tax and no tax on food items. Now, that being said, I know there is an OK state income tax and a tax on food items. However, I also realize that OK property taxes are much lower than TX. In fact, the one sticking point I do have with TX is the high property taxes. Since one of my main motivations for leaving WA is the fact that I'll never be able to own a house here, I have to look at all sides of the equation.

So, in sort of a roundabout way, what I'm asking is, despite OK income tax and sales tax on food, do you think you still come out ahead of Tx with its zero income tax and high property taxes? From what I can tell, my salary in Tx would not be much more than what I would make in OKC or even TUL. In fact, they would be fairly close if not, probably more in OK.

I have some info that compares taxes state by state, but once we get to the property taxes, it gets confusing. Market value, cash value, assessed market value, blah blah. It's like they're trying to confuse you!

Anyway, any input would be great. My gut tells me that I would be just fine in OKC. BUt, it never hurts to put out the gauge and get more info.

[colleeng47]

This website from Money magazine ranks the states by overall taxes.
The best and worst states for taxes - MSN Money

As you can see, TX is 41st and OK is 50th.

HTH

[karibear]

Originally Posted by colleeng47

This website from Money magazine ranks the states by overall taxes.
The best and worst states for taxes - MSN Money

As you can see, TX is 41st and OK is 50th.

HTH

Some of that information is kind of deceptive. For instance, while AK doesn't have a state sales tax, every town has it's own or not, as it chooses. It all goes to whichever city, none to the state. We used to have arguments with the fuel company over whether or not we'd have to pay sales tax on heating oil, because we were outside the city limits and the oil was delivered - a couple times we paid the driver on delivery, without paying the sales tax, and it worked for awhile. Then the company got smart and said it all had to be paid at the office in town, either in person or by mail to their town address.

And in WA, the sales tax where I bought groceries was considerably higher than the state's tax, the town itself kept raising their share.

[cobolt]

Yes I know this. I used to live in Juneau, AK so I know that although there is no official state sales tax, the boroughs can and do enact their own sales tax. The MSN list says that Alabama has a 4% sales tax, but it's more like 9% (I was just there a few months ago) because most of the counties can add x amount to that. Besides, I"ve already been to all those compare and top ten list sites, which is why I am posting this question on this forum. I want to hear from people.

[Ponderosa]

I don't think you can put much into those comparisons. Everything depends on personal circumstances. If you have a high salary, but rent, Texas is going to be the best choice. But if you want a high priced house then maybe OK is best. I know that when I crunch the numbers on a possible full time relocation to my house in OK, I find I would have to pay more in taxes even though AZ is rated worse in MSN list. Property tax is about the same %, but OK income taxes would be higher for me. I think you just have to do some trial calcs. Get an OK income tax form and fill it out and see.

[cobolt]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

I don't think you can put much into those comparisons. Everything depends on personal circumstances. If you have a high salary, but rent, Texas is going to be the best choice. But if you want a high priced house then maybe OK is best. I know that when I crunch the numbers on a possible full time relocation to my house in OK, I find I would have to pay more in taxes even though AZ is rated worse in MSN list. Property tax is about the same %, but OK income taxes would be higher for me. I think you just have to do some trial calcs. Get an OK income tax form and fill it out and see.

Well, regardless of which state, I would rent for 6 months to a year before I buy, but my ultimate goal is to buy a house. And it's just me so I don't need or want thousands of square feet of home and sprawl to heat and maintain. 800-1000 sq feet is more than enough and a nice yard to grow things. I just don't want one of those cookie cutter houses in a fabricated planned neighborhood of cul-de-sacs and tract housing. I'd rather live in an older house, established neighborhood. PRoblem with that is those places usually tend to be runned down and in marginal to bad neighborhoods. Anyway, I"m not looking for which state can buy the bigger house for my money. I'm looking at which way will I be better off financially? What is the income tax in OK? And how do they figure the property tax? I read somewhere 11-13% of fair cash value, whatever that means.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by cobolt

Well, regardless of which state, I would rent for 6 months to a year before I buy, but my ultimate goal is to buy a house. And it's just me so I don't need or want thousands of square feet of home and sprawl to heat and maintain. 800-1000 sq feet is more than enough and a nice yard to grow things. I just don't want one of those cookie cutter houses in a fabricated planned neighborhood of cul-de-sacs and tract housing. I'd rather live in an older house, established neighborhood. PRoblem with that is those places usually tend to be runned down and in marginal to bad neighborhoods. Anyway, I"m not looking for which state can buy the bigger house for my money. I'm looking at which way will I be better off financially? What is the income tax in OK? And how do they figure the property tax? I read somewhere 11-13% of fair cash value, whatever that means.

I have two properties there - one vacant land and the other an acre with a small older house on it. Both of them are around 1% of what I paid (the house one is less) per year - different counties and school district may be the difference. For example, if you pay 100K, taxes would be 750-1000 per year based on my experience. To figure my income taxes, I got both AZ and OK extensions to my TurboTax last year and figured that OK would run me about 1500 more in state income than I paid in AZ. Income taxes are highly dependent on personal circumstances - what you can deduct etc - so I can't generalize there. Most OK towns I have shopped in have very high sales taxes - on the order of 9%. I don't know if they tax just sales or everything - like labor and services too.

[cobolt]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

I have two properties there - one vacant land and the other an acre with a small older house on it. Both of them are around 1% of what I paid (the house one is less) per year - different counties and school district may be the difference. For example, if you pay 100K, taxes would be 750-1000 per year based on my experience. To figure my income taxes, I got both AZ and OK extensions to my TurboTax last year and figured that OK would run me about 1500 more in state income than I paid in AZ. Income taxes are highly dependent on personal circumstances - what you can deduct etc - so I can't generalize there. Most OK towns I have shopped in have very high sales taxes - on the order of 9%. I don't know if they tax just sales or everything - like labor and services too.

Yes I'm noticing that too about the sales tax as I get on the OK tax site and do the calculations. I am figuring that the same valued property (100K) in Tx you speak of in OK would run about double your quotes, at least in the areas I'm looking at, about 1.5% of value, so 1400-2000 based on figures from a few friends of mine. If I were considering the major metros and surrounding areas, they'd be even higher, around 3% of value.

I'm also looking at how much it costs to register a vehicle etc.

[sparkman75229]

Hey there, I find these topics so interesting. I did a little googleing, i know...I don't have enough to do this morning.

Here are sites for taxes in general and the Oklahoma County Property Tax, Oklahoma state taxes Oklahoma County Assessor Facts and Questions

It's pretty interesting. I don't know if you are familiar with Dallas, but let's say you were looking at a small house in the Midway and NW Highway area, take the average price of $250,000 for a 2 bedroom 1 bath 1940's cottage and your property tax with the homestead exemption would be about $5,200 or so. Now in OKC that same house would probably not be that expensive, but if it were, according to the calculations i saw on the county site, your property tax would be around $2,600 or so.

Now state income tax really comes into play. It is graduated, but for the sake of this let's use the 5.65 rate. If your income is 75,000 then your tax would be approximately $4,200 and in Texas is would be 0.

So it all depends, if you have a job in a field that has stable income and you don't expect it to increase greatly over time and it is what would be considered average, then Oklahoma would be far less expensive but if you have a high income and don't really care to live in a McMansion, Texas is going to be far less expensive.

In my case, my home is a larger home built in the 50's. My property taxes are pretty high but based on my income I pay a lot less in taxes in Texas.

There of course are lot of other things to consider. Texas and Oklahoma are both great places to live and the job market is doing as well as can be expected in both. You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders, so I am sure whatever you choose to do will be the right this for you. Good luck.

[cobolt]

Originally Posted by sparkman75229

Hey there, I find these topics so interesting. I did a little googleing, i know...I don't have enough to do this morning.

Here are sites for taxes in general and the Oklahoma County Property Tax, Oklahoma state taxes Oklahoma County Assessor Facts and Questions

It's pretty interesting. I don't know if you are familiar with Dallas, but let's say you were looking at a small house in the Midway and NW Highway area, take the average price of $250,000 for a 2 bedroom 1 bath 1940's cottage and your property tax with the homestead exemption would be about $5,200 or so. Now in OKC that same house would probably not be that expensive, but if it were, according to the calculations i saw on the county site, your property tax would be around $2,600 or so.

Now state income tax really comes into play. It is graduated, but for the sake of this let's use the 5.65 rate. If your income is 75,000 then your tax would be approximately $4,200 and in Texas is would be 0.

So it all depends, if you have a job in a field that has stable income and you don't expect it to increase greatly over time and it is what would be considered average, then Oklahoma would be far less expensive but if you have a high income and don't really care to live in a McMansion, Texas is going to be far less expensive.

In my case, my home is a larger home built in the 50's. My property taxes are pretty high but based on my income I pay a lot less in taxes in Texas.

There of course are lot of other things to consider. Texas and Oklahoma are both great places to live and the job market is doing as well as can be expected in both. You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders, so I am sure whatever you choose to do will be the right this for you. Good luck.

Sparkman,

That's pretty much what I'm getting out of it. Let's say I'm paying 1500 tax on an OK property. Then I still have to figure the income tax, which is going to run another couple thousand, whereas in Tx, I'm just paying that 1500 to 2000 (the later being the absolute worst case scenario). Where I"m looking in Tx, property taxes for the sort of house I'm looking for run somewhere in the range of 1400-1800 (maybe 2000 at the worst). I'd make maybe a bit less in income than I would in OKC. At least with a property tax, you have some control over that (county of choice for residence, size of house) whereas with income tax, I mean, who would choose to stay in a lower paying job? The more you make, the more you fork over. I don't know. My head hurts!