Whats Oklahoma City like ? (Howe, Okay: to rent, home, buying)

[scubashawn68]

Lot of interesting comments...Thanks

[TulsaArtist]

Originally Posted by colleeng47

Thank you so much for coming on here, and for your first post, spewing all that hatred.

Have a good day.

There should be no more or less value (or like or dislike) placed on someone coming on here saying nothing but rosy comments, versus someone coming on here saying nothing but bad ones.

What doesnt help is if you find that someone only and always focuses solely on one or the other, for then its impossible to believe the veracity in what they say or their sense of balance and "fair mindedness" or even sanity for that matter lol.

There is an old saying in psychology,,," Agreeing with someone or disagreeing with them means your doing the same thing. Your judging them instead of listening to them."

If you wish to judge, one must realize that in order to be fair in that judging,,,"all positive" posts should be treated just as equally as "all negative" ones.

And one must admit the poster did aspire to put in some balance.

[irishlover]

Originally Posted by TulsaArtist

There should be no more or less value (or like or dislike) placed on someone coming on here saying nothing but rosy comments, versus someone coming on here saying nothing but bad ones.

What doesnt help is if you find that someone only and always focuses solely on one or the other, for then its impossible to believe the veracity in what they say or their sense of balance and "fair mindedness" or even sanity for that matter lol.

There is an old saying in psychology,,," Agreeing with someone or disagreeing with them means your doing the same thing. Your judging them instead of listening to them."

If you wish to judge, one must realize that in order to be fair in that judging,,,"all positive" posts should be treated just as equally as "all negative" ones.

And one must admit the poster did aspire to put in some balance.

Excellent post! I just posted basically the same thing in the other active OKC thread.

[okcpulse]

Originally Posted by TulsaArtist

There should be no more or less value (or like or dislike) placed on someone coming on here saying nothing but rosy comments, versus someone coming on here saying nothing but bad ones.

What doesnt help is if you find that someone only and always focuses solely on one or the other, for then its impossible to believe the veracity in what they say or their sense of balance and "fair mindedness" or even sanity for that matter lol.

There is an old saying in psychology,,," Agreeing with someone or disagreeing with them means your doing the same thing. Your judging them instead of listening to them."

If you wish to judge, one must realize that in order to be fair in that judging,,,"all positive" posts should be treated just as equally as "all negative" ones.

And one must admit the poster did aspire to put in some balance.

But where VIVAGIRL went wrong was her rant about racial discrimination in Oklahoma City. She obviously knows ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about Oklahoma City's history in fighting racial discrimination, and even went into exaggeration mode. Oklahoma City was one of the first cities in the country to desegregate the public school system in 1963, and all of the sit-ins that began in the late 1950s in Oklahoma City went peacefully. People didn't get the fire hose like in Alabama during the Civil rights marches.

Not to mention she made the mistake of summing up Oklahoma City's Christian community by claiming "almost none of the churches are racially integrated". Really? So she visited almost all 740 churches in the Oklahoma City area to compile that assessment? And I don't think she realizes that the body of the church, depending on where you are in town, pretty much comprises of attendees who live nearby. Is it really, really mentally mission critical for a church congregation to be half white/half black? And don't give me this nonsense about cultural segregation in Oklahoma City when it happens everywhere in this country.

Then she went in to criticize Oklahoma City's visual appeal, and rightfully so. But there is a problem. She treated the issue as though Oklahoma City had no plans to fight urban blight, which again, happens in most cities across the country. And she is right, there are plenty of blighted patches scattered around inner OKC. What she didn't realize is that city leaders began a program in 2004 to clean up blighted areas. If a home is too run down, it is declared legally dilapidated and then torn down. If the home is inhabited by someone, they are ordered to clean up there property or else face stiff fines. But it is a tough battle to win, and at least the city is making headway even though there are still miles to cover. At least organizations like Habitat for Humanity is helping the poor fix up their homes. When did that start to not count?

Case in point, take the PHF Biotech Research Park. At least a square mile of slum was demolished to make way for a clean reasearch park that brought thousands if good paying jobs to OKC. Core To Shore will have the same focus. That canal that goes around "nothing" does that for a reason. Once I-40 is moved, development can then take off.

Then she claimed a very large percentage of transplants "like really disliked it." Honestly? Of the thousands of people that move to the metro every year, she honestly kept track of the thoughts and opinions of almost 50,000 people that moved TO OKC in her five year tenure? Wow. My family moved from Oregon to Oklahoma in 1975. They are all still there and still love it. How about the people I met from New Jersey, New York, California and Michigan? Shoot, some of them even got involved with the community to change it for the better. And of course, there are always transplants that don't like and move. And that's okay. But don't pretend your knowledge of a city or state is omnipresent when you don't do your homework.

Look, she doesn't have to like Oklahoma City. It is her right. But there is a difference between constructive and destructive criticism. If Oklahoma City didn't have any plans to fix the city, that's one thing. But give credit where credit is due. You have to start somewhere. Why is it "cool" that other cities can fix up their towns but not OKC? Anything OKC tries is shot down by you people as a joke.

It's good to get an outsiders opinion for needed input, but it does no good when the entire populace is thrown under the bus just because "you didn't like it". It is not constructive criticism.

[colleeng47]

Originally Posted by okcpulse

But where VIVAGIRL went wrong was her rant about racial discrimination in Oklahoma City. She obviously knows ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about Oklahoma City's history in fighting racial discrimination, and even went into exaggeration mode. Oklahoma City was one of the first cities in the country to desegregate the public school system in 1963, and all of the sit-ins that began in the late 1950s in Oklahoma City went peacefully. People didn't get the fire hose like in Alabama during the Civil rights marches.

Not to mention she made the mistake of summing up Oklahoma City's Christian community by claiming "almost none of the churches are racially integrated". Really? So she visited almost all 740 churches in the Oklahoma City area to compile that assessment? And I don't think she realizes that the body of the church, depending on where you are in town, pretty much comprises of attendees who live nearby. Is it really, really mentally mission critical for a church congregation to be half white/half black? And don't give me this nonsense about cultural segregation in Oklahoma City when it happens everywhere in this country.

Then she went in to criticize Oklahoma City's visual appeal, and rightfully so. But there is a problem. She treated the issue as though Oklahoma City had no plans to fight urban blight, which again, happens in most cities across the country. And she is right, there are plenty of blighted patches scattered around inner OKC. What she didn't realize is that city leaders began a program in 2004 to clean up blighted areas. If a home is too run down, it is declared legally dilapidated and then torn down. If the home is inhabited by someone, they are ordered to clean up there property or else face stiff fines. But it is a tough battle to win, and at least the city is making headway even though there are still miles to cover. At least organizations like Habitat for Humanity is helping the poor fix up their homes. When did that start to not count?

Case in point, take the PHF Biotech Research Park. At least a square mile of slum was demolished to make way for a clean reasearch park that brought thousands if good paying jobs to OKC. Core To Shore will have the same focus. That canal that goes around "nothing" does that for a reason. Once I-40 is moved, development can then take off.

Then she claimed a very large percentage of transplants "like really disliked it." Honestly? Of the thousands of people that move to the metro every year, she honestly kept track of the thoughts and opinions of almost 50,000 people that moved TO OKC in her five year tenure? Wow. My family moved from Oregon to Oklahoma in 1975. They are all still there and still love it. How about the people I met from New Jersey, New York, California and Michigan? Shoot, some of them even got involved with the community to change it for the better. And of course, there are always transplants that don't like and move. And that's okay. But don't pretend your knowledge of a city or state is omnipresent when you don't do your homework.

Look, she doesn't have to like Oklahoma City. It is her right. But there is a difference between constructive and destructive criticism. If Oklahoma City didn't have any plans to fix the city, that's one thing. But give credit where credit is due. You have to start somewhere. Why is it "cool" that other cities can fix up their towns but not OKC? Anything OKC tries is shot down by you people as a joke.

It's good to get an outsiders opinion for needed input, but it does no good when the entire populace is thrown under the bus just because "you didn't like it". It is not constructive criticism.

Well said.

[TulsaArtist]

Good post. I would rather people argue different points rather than just ''''throw the entire post under the bus just because "you didn't like it"''. But, on one point, I dont think the arguments about not liking the way OKC looks, is not just about blighted homes, many cities have those areas. I personally find that large parts, of what I am told and shown to be nice areas, are quite, well, ugly, compared to even many in Tulsa. Now Tulsa has its desperately poor and blighted areas, but even the "average" streets seem much nicer here than the "average" in OKC, and we seem to have many more nice looking areas than OKC. And Tulsa isnt anything special in that respect, compared to most other cities I have visited Tulsas "decent/nice areas" appears a bit run down and shabby. I have had friends drive me around OKC showing me this or that place saying this is a nice strip here, nice neighborhood, shopping center, etc. Only to find myself looking around going..."omg, this area looks like a dump". Curbs, sidewalks, parking lots, with weeds growing though them, trash blowing around, signage that needs redoing, shops and restaurants that need upkeep, scraggly trees, landscaping seems a rarity and not the norm, etc. Again, Tulsa has pleeeenty of similar areas, but I can drive you around huge areas of the city on to the next, and side to side and back again on different streets, and take you down streets that will look far better than any similarly long route in OKC. Your working on it, but working on it isnt "now" and people judge not on where you have come from, or how far you have come or even where your going, but on what they see right now. OKC has improved, its continuing to approve its "aesthetics" and I am as excited as the next guy to see it happen. But, ya have to admit, its still pretty much an ugly city. Though hopefully you wont continue be that way for long.

If ya want to challenge me on that we can do a comparison drive in each city. I can map out or drive you if you come to Tulsa, around mile after mile of roads over large areas of the city,,,, then you can map out your best routes in OKC for me to travel or I will ride with you,,, and then we can compare. And again, I dont think Tulsa is all that, compared to many cities I have visited. But it still makes OKC look despondent and shabby. So when outsiders come in who are "visually affected" by their environment, they may find OKC not so pleasing in that respect. Obviously lots of people in OKC dont seem care, but many do.

[okcpulse]

Originally Posted by TulsaArtist

Good post. I would rather people argue different points rather than just ''''throw the entire post under the bus just because "you didn't like it"''. But, on one point, I dont think the arguments about not liking the way OKC looks, is not just about blighted homes, many cities have those areas. I personally find that large parts, of what I am told and shown to be nice areas, are quite, well, ugly, compared to even many in Tulsa. Now Tulsa has its desperately poor and blighted areas, but even the "average" streets seem much nicer here than the "average" in OKC, and we seem to have many more nice looking areas than OKC. And Tulsa isnt anything special in that respect, compared to most other cities I have visited Tulsas "decent/nice areas" appears a bit run down and shabby. I have had friends drive me around OKC showing me this or that place saying this is a nice strip here, nice neighborhood, shopping center, etc. Only to find myself looking around going..."omg, this area looks like a dump". Curbs, sidewalks, parking lots, with weeds growing though them, trash blowing around, signage that needs redoing, shops and restaurants that need upkeep, scraggly trees, landscaping seems a rarity and not the norm, etc. Again, Tulsa has pleeeenty of similar areas, but I can drive you around huge areas of the city on to the next, and side to side and back again on different streets, and take you down streets that will look far better than any similarly long route in OKC. Your working on it, but working on it isnt "now" and people judge not on where you have come from, or how far you have come or even where your going, but on what they see right now. OKC has improved, its continuing to approve its "aesthetics" and I am as excited as the next guy to see it happen. But, ya have to admit, its still pretty much an ugly city. Though hopefully you wont continue be that way for long.

If ya want to challenge me on that we can do a comparison drive in each city. I can map out or drive you if you come to Tulsa, around mile after mile of roads over large areas of the city,,,, then you can map out your best routes in OKC for me to travel or I will ride with you,,, and then we can compare. And again, I dont think Tulsa is all that, compared to many cities I have visited. But it still makes OKC look despondent and shabby. So when outsiders come in who are "visually affected" by their environment, they may find OKC not so pleasing in that respect. Obviously lots of people in OKC dont seem care, but many do.

Well, I've been to Tulsa many times, as all of my wife's family lives there. So I can visualize what you are talking about. But you have to remember, not only did Tulsa develop differently than OKC, Tulsa has also kept itself up over the years. This is why I think the city comparison frenzy really does a disservice to cities that are working to improve. I agree that it makes sense for people to judge cities based upon what they see in the present, but I can only hope that they reconsider a visit to OKC once a lot of the city's plans take shape.

Tell you what, what I'd like to find out from you is what parts of Oklahoma City you have been to where you feel improvements should be made. I can then write the city manager to find out if these areas have been identified for aesthietic improvements (i.e., streetscaping, property citiations).

Right now I am building an urban scientific analysis software application that takes a look at urban areas (OKC is my guinnea pig). Once complete, the idea is to pinpoint areas ripe for retail, and areas that need remediation. It'll be pretty interesting to see the results. That is when things quite down with my company. They keep me busy.

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by okcpulse

Population by race in Oklahoma City proper... you decide for yourself how diversified Oklahoma City is.

European American: 346,226
African American: 77,810
American Indian and Alaska Native: 17,743
Asian: 17,595
Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander: 360
Hispanic or Latino (may be of any race): 51,368
Other: 31,382

Oklahoma City's population growth between 1990 and 2008 has largely consisted of Hispanic or Latino. African Americans trailed at second, and European Americans were the slowest growing of all races.

Just FYI.

Do you have a link? Because there is no way 20% of the city is Black. That is a joke! It's well known that OKC doesn't have many Black people. You are saying that a 1 in every 5 people you meet in OKC is Black....LOL

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by okcpulse

But where VIVAGIRL went wrong was her rant about racial discrimination in Oklahoma City. She obviously knows ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about Oklahoma City's history in fighting racial discrimination, and even went into exaggeration mode. Oklahoma City was one of the first cities in the country to desegregate the public school system in 1963, and all of the sit-ins that began in the late 1950s in Oklahoma City went peacefully. People didn't get the fire hose like in Alabama during the Civil rights marches.

Before you speak about OKC's history of fighting racial injustice, I suggest you visit the National Civil Rights museum in Memphis in which it discusses the racist events in OKC that helped spur the Civil Rights movement.

[okcpulse]

Oh, you mean events like the sit-ins in the 1950s because people weren't getting served due to the color of their skin? Do you suggest that there was racial equality in other parts of the country in those days? What else can we dig up from 50 years ago to throw OKC under the bus?