U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Oklahoma
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 04-14-2014, 10:32 AM
 
Location: OKIE-Ville
5,522 posts, read 8,948,703 times
Reputation: 3246

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by swake View Post
I think you may be biased. Most people in Tulsa consider the area the midwest. I certainly do and my family has been here for almost 100 years.

The local news outlets certainly don't agree with you. There are many news articles from the last two weeks that call Tulsa/Oklahoma the Midwest:

Tulsa World | Survey: Midwest economy should keep growing
Survey: Midwest economy should keep growing - Tulsa World: Finance

Enid News | Far beyond humble beginnings: For Meibergens and Johnston Grain, it’s a family affair
Far beyond humble beginnings: For Meibergens and Johnston Grain, it


Tahlequah Daily Press | Tinsley time
Tinsley time » Sports » Tahlequah Daily Press


Altsounds | Hanson Announces Hop Jam Craft Beer and Music Festival
Read more at Hanson Announces Hop Jam Craft Beer and Music Festival - #AltSounds
Hanson Announces Hop Jam Craft Beer and Music Festival - #AltSounds


News on 6 | Port Of Catoosa Begins Work On Major Dock Renovation Project
Port Of Catoosa Begins Work On Major Dock Renovation Project - NewsOn6.com - Tulsa, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports - KOTV.com |
Several of the articles mention Arkansas and Louisiana. When have any of these states been really associated with the Midwest? The one article about the coach mentions all the games he won in Louisiana too. So are those games included in the designation that he is a "legend in the Midwest"?

Even the article about the Port of Catoosa mentions that it will be a essentially a gateway to other areas such as Arkansas and Louisiana. Again, if this is YOUR definition of what constitutes the Midwest then so be it; you're just wrong. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, whether accurate or inaccurate. It appears from your thinking, and what I can gather from the articles, that anything that is central is the Midwest. Technically speaking this is an erroneous idea. Again, look at the Census and the vast majority of regional associations and you just don't find Arkansas, Oklahoma, and certainly not Louisiana as part of the Midwest. These are South-Central states (West South Central if you're going by the Census), especially Oklahoma, Texas, and Arkansas.

The one article about Hanson (I struggled to get through it because of the artist) mentions "Oklahoma and the midwest." That's quite vague. Again, what states is the author including in designation of Midwest? Are these merely central states again? I estimate that the answer is probably yes, and that would certainly include Arkansas, Texas, and maybe even Louisiana in the "central" designation along with Oklahoma.

I think it's clear to everyone that you're really reaching here. You're other posts indicate that you may have biases against anything associated with that which is Southern. Are you worried that all Southerners, with Okies included in that group, are prejudiced bigots? Maybe we're missing most of our teeth and like to stroke the banjo every night while Mama fries the possum? I think it's pretty clear that you have some pretty-deep seated biases too.

Or maybe you're a Deep South Purist? Only Bammer, Mississippi, Georgia, and South Carolina are the South to you?

Either way, I don't think the articles you listed are as near as strong at proving your point as you would like to think.

Cheers My Southern/Okie Brother!
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-14-2014, 10:45 AM
 
Location: OKIE-Ville
5,522 posts, read 8,948,703 times
Reputation: 3246
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnspecial View Post
The AP Stylebook that is a required handbook for journalist but often neglected.

South
As defined by the U.S.
Census Bureau, the 16-state
region is broken into three divisions.

The four East South Central
states are Alabama, Kentucky,
Mississippi and Tennessee.
The eight

South Atlantic states are
Delaware, Florida, Georgia,
Maryland, North Carolina, South
Carolina, Virginia and West Virginia.

The four West South Central
states are Arkansas, Louisiana,
Oklahoma and Texas.
http://www.quarterboundpress.com/qbp...ide%202005.pdf


So whenever you run across a commercial or a article that mentions Oklahoma as a midwestern state you have one of two scenarios in play.

1. They are too lazy to use an approved stylebook
2. Have a bias and want to change the perception(this is the most probable scenario for Tulsa writers)

You are outgunned here. I have given you concrete sources that outline settlement patterns, culture, religion and politics. All you have is a strong desire to disassociate Oklahoma with the south using examples of lazy journalism and uneducated writers.

and to be honest with you, Tulsa really doesn't matter. It's the only area you find these people and not the cultural espicenter in Okalhoma. The majority of people in Oklahoma City and all other towns in Oklahoma consider Oklahoma southern or western south.

Facts don't work too well with him. I think he must be the great-great grandson of a Yankee oil baron. Carryin' on the family legacy.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-14-2014, 02:25 PM
 
Location: Tulsa, OK
2,572 posts, read 4,050,326 times
Reputation: 2423
I feel Eastern Oklahoma is more Southern than rest of the state, but with that being said, most of the time our local media and newspaper refer to us as being the midwest. I never really paid that much attention until these strange arguments started happening about Oklahoma being Southern and if you didn't believe that you were some kind of uninformed American hating heathen.

About the only time I hear any reference to us as being Southern is when I hear of us as being on the Southern Plains. In no way do I feel like OKC is a Southern City. What other Southern City sits on the Great Plains? What other Southern City is as dry as OKC? What other Southern City has blizzards like OKC? Any other Souther City as Windy as OKC?

What Southern city is OKC most like?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-14-2014, 03:02 PM
 
Location: USA
7,776 posts, read 11,832,686 times
Reputation: 11801
It's a mystery to me why the specific designation is so important to some.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-14-2014, 03:24 PM
 
Location: OKIE-Ville
5,522 posts, read 8,948,703 times
Reputation: 3246
Quote:
Originally Posted by okie1962 View Post
I feel Eastern Oklahoma is more Southern than rest of the state, but with that being said, most of the time our local media and newspaper refer to us as being the midwest. I never really paid that much attention until these strange arguments started happening about Oklahoma being Southern and if you didn't believe that you were some kind of uninformed American hating heathen.

About the only time I hear any reference to us as being Southern is when I hear of us as being on the Southern Plains. In no way do I feel like OKC is a Southern City. What other Southern City sits on the Great Plains? What other Southern City is as dry as OKC? What other Southern City has blizzards like OKC? Any other Souther City as Windy as OKC?

What Southern city is OKC most like?
Uninformed? Maybe. An "American hating heathen" would be just a tad extreme.

As for other Southern cities on the Plains, well, Tulsa and virtually every large(r) city in Tejas (Fort Worth could OKC's twin, Lubbock and Amarillo, Abilene, College Station & Austin...OK, maybe NOT Austin and that's a GOOD thing) with the exception of Houston. And more tangential to the Plains the candidates are Fort Smith and then Fayettville and to a lesser extent Little Rock and Nashville.

BTW, I think you're focusing mainly on topographical traits again. Much of the dialogue in the thread, however, has centered on cultural elements. Just FYI.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-14-2014, 05:27 PM
 
Location: USA
7,776 posts, read 11,832,686 times
Reputation: 11801
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass&Catfish2008 View Post

Uninformed? Maybe. An "American hating heathen" would be just a tad extreme.

<snipped>

Much of the dialogue in the thread, however, has centered on cultural elements. Just FYI.
Hey! I rather like the image of a wild-eyed American hating heathen in my mind's eye. And, besides, imo, my cultural elements are right up there with NYC and any other major city.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-15-2014, 05:42 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma
15,423 posts, read 11,234,620 times
Reputation: 14932
Again, I think the better way to say it is that the last vestiges of the midwest are probably found in Tulsa, much like the last vestiges of the south are found in central and northwestern Oklahoma. Similarly, the last vestiges of the northern plains are found in northern Oklahoma and the last vestiges of the southern plains are found in southern and central Oklahoma.

As I have stated before, Oklahoma is maybe more southern than anything else when generalizing it from a regional perspective. However, much of Oklahoma's northern portions are influenced by settlement from Missouri, Kansas and the northern plains.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-15-2014, 08:52 AM
 
Location: USA
7,776 posts, read 11,832,686 times
Reputation: 11801
I suppose all the others who have repeated what they said before will return to do it again, so I will also.

No matter how many influences occurred in whichever corner of the state or some part not in a corner or down a few miles towards the middle (or the panhandle), there will only be one umbrella designation to cover each and every notion no matter what. The label that works best, in general, is southwest, which clearly includes the word south. LOL

NEXT!
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-15-2014, 02:48 PM
 
Location: Tulsa, OK
2,572 posts, read 4,050,326 times
Reputation: 2423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubi3 View Post
I suppose all the others who have repeated what they said before will return to do it again, so I will also.

No matter how many influences occurred in whichever corner of the state or some part not in a corner or down a few miles towards the middle (or the panhandle), there will only be one umbrella designation to cover each and every notion no matter what. The label that works best, in general, is southwest, which clearly includes the word south. LOL

NEXT!
I agree!
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-15-2014, 04:28 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma City
374 posts, read 770,470 times
Reputation: 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
Again, I think the better way to say it is that the last vestiges of the midwest are probably found in Tulsa, much like the last vestiges of the south are found in central and northwestern Oklahoma. Similarly, the last vestiges of the northern plains are found in northern Oklahoma and the last vestiges of the southern plains are found in southern and central Oklahoma.

As I have stated before, Oklahoma is maybe more southern than anything else when generalizing it from a regional perspective. However, much of Oklahoma's northern portions are influenced by settlement from Missouri, Kansas and the northern plains.
That is also not true considering there never has been much human population above Oklahoma. Kansas influences Oklahoma about as much as Rhode Island influenced New York. Oklahoma influences Kansas. It's been that way since statehood. Settlement has traditionally moved from east to west. Almost all of Oklahoma's foundation has come from the old south.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Oklahoma

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2023, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top