[eddie gein]

Originally Posted by BeauCharles

Also, I've spoken with my mother about Jim Crow laws in Oklahoma when she was growing up even after WWII when she and my dad moved to OKC for a short time. When she was a girl in the 1930s the black kids had their own school. She said in the late 1940s there were still "White Only" and "Colored Only" drinking fountains and restrooms, etc... in OKC. How often would you have seen that in Iowa or Minnesota? I know that Oklahoma has had a lot of migration from other areas of the country (Upper Midwest and the Northern states) since then, but I think that at its core most of the population is culturally a lot more Southern than Midwestern.

These are good points and as I have said before, I think Oklahoma is more southern than it is anything else. At statehood the southern types grabbed political control and instituted southern type legal system. I believe the first law put in place by the legislature was one that had to do with segregationist policy. I believe the story is that the reason that Oklahoma came in as one state instead of two was because the Republicans who were in charge of the executive branch in Washington did not want two separate sets of democratic congressional delegations coming to the Capitol. This Indian Territory and Oklahoma Territory came in as one state.

However it also must be noted that Free state Republican Kansas (which highly influenced the settlement of the northern part of the state during the early days) also practiced Jim Crow and segregation. It must be remembered that despite it's abolitionist history, Kansas was home of the landmark case of Brown v. Board of Education (Topeka) which essentially ended "separate but equal schools. And as shameful as Oklahoma's racial past can be it must be noted that school integration went relatively smoothly compared to most southern states.

[Studying Okie]

Originally Posted by lifelongOkie405

In so many ways, Oklahoma is Southern. I've lived here my entire life and am a fourth-generation Okie. My ancestors came here from Tennessee and North Carolina. So much about Oklahoma points to the South. But, we certainly are not the Deep South and being "Southern" isn't celebrated in Oklahoma culture the way it is in say Alabama or Mississippi.

In my experiences, I've come to understand that my state is a fascinating transition point between the American South and the American West. Put Mississippi and New Mexico in a blender, and you get Oklahoma. And whether Okies like to admit it or not, we are tied at the hip with Texas. Whatever region Texas is (especially the northern 3/4 of Texas), we are.

You can get great Mexican food (western) AND great catfish (southern) in Oklahoma. We have pinon pines (western) AND loblolly pines (southern) growing naturally in our state. We have antelope (western) in our western counties AND American Alligators (southern, duh) in our southeastern counties.

So parts of our state feel WAY more Western, while other parts are undeniably Southern. And Oklahoma City is literally RIGHT between these two regions and in my option should do more to celebrate this. OKC has always labeled itself a "Western" city and rightfully so. But in so, so, so many ways, OKC is also unmistakably Southern. The city should celebrate it's transitional location in America in my opinion.

So, people generally would agree that they're Southerners in Oklahoma, but you also have a lot people who simply don't know or understand where they come from. And unfortunately, like in so many parts of America, Oklahoma has lost some of its regional charm. Shopping centers, corporate developments and cookie-cutter neighborhoods have watered down our identify and parts of OK look no different that any other part of America. Language wise, TV and the internet have watered down regional speech patterns. But a TRUE Oklahoma accent has a kind of slow Southern pattern to it with a twangy vibe. See Reba, Blake Shelton, etc. It's not an Old Southern accent by any means. But it's distinctively a form of Southern English.

One thing is 1 million % certain and that is Oklahoma isn't the Midwest. This isn't opinion, it's fact. The Midwest, by definition, is the North-Central part of the United States. It's Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota, etc...it's certainly not Oklahoma and Texas. I think when people say Oklahoma is in the "Midwest", what they're trying to say is that Oklahoma is in the middle of the country.

One reason Oklahoma is often grouped with more Midwestern states is Oklahoma and Oklahoma State's long association with the Big 8 Conference. For years, folks tuned into the annual Oklahoma-Nebraska football game. They also watched OU and OSU play the Kansas schools, Iowa State and Missouri (all places that are WAY more Midwestern than Oklahoma). Very naturally, many people started assuming Oklahoma was in the same region as these schools they played in sports every year, when in fact we are not. On a map it's clear to see that Oklahoma was sort of an unnatural southern appendage to the Big 8's footprint.

OU and OSU original where in the Southwest Conference with all the Texas schools and Arkansas. The almighty dollar eventually won out and both schools went to the Missouri Valley Conference which eventually turned into the Big 8. The Big 12 has probably helped people group Oklahoma more accurately with Texas, but the long, long period of Big 8 membership certainly skewed the nation's regional view of Oklahoma.

In summary, Oklahoma fits neatly into the same region geographically with almost all of Texas except the extreme west and south (see El Paso, the Rio Grande Region and the Brownsville-Mcallen areas). You can also throw in most of Arkansas and even Northern Louisiana and Southern Missouri into this region.

It's unfortunate that there's not ONE distinct geographical name to describe our region. But I'd call it the Southwest, the Southern Plains, the Western South, the Cowboy South or something to that effect.

You and I have come to many of the same conclusions about the Great State of Oklahoma! In fact, I posited on this very thread about the influence of College Football in influencing Oklahoma's perceived region almost 4 years ago (along with many other parallel points haha).

I think what happens when researching this particular topic is that many of us begin with an existing opinion and then find facts to match our view, rather than weigh the evidence and allow ourselves to come to a potentially new and more-informed opinion.

As this thread has progressed over the past few years, it's been so great to see everyone chime in and provide some anecdote on why Oklahoma is whatever region they think it is. No matter what the consensus is, all these perspectives could be factored into the analysis of where exactly Oklahoma is, region-wise.

I continue to be fascinated by this discussion. My original thesis was that "Oklahoma is part of the South," and I set out on a mission to find out why I believed this. In researching and discussing this topic, I learned so much about the history of Oklahoma, the country and its regions, and my own family history too. I'm not sure if I ever found THE conclusive answer to whether or not Oklahoma is the South, but I sure dug up a lot of reasons why it is (and a few reasons that might not be the case!).

Anyway, everyone on this board has provided very interesting commentary about Oklahoma, and I wanted to thank each and every one of y'all for their 2 cents!

[case44]

I think Oklahoma is fine just like it is....

[Johnhw2]

I suspect like Oklahoma most states have influences from other neighboring area and more. Why must a state be classified as part of one region? It makes no sense to me. But it sure makes a good CD topic to get a lot of discussion and opinions going.

[_redbird_]

Originally Posted by case44

I think Oklahoma is fine just like it is....

Personally, I don't see OK as anything but Oklahoma. But then my earliest years were in rural SW Oklahoma. It is interesting reading the different perspectives and opinions.

On a completely different yet similar vein, Oklahoma is home to about 44 Native American tribes hailing from as far away as Delaware, Georgia, the Great Lakes region and the northern plains.