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I watched Public TV a few days ago on Fidelity Cablevision and they mentioned Oklahoma vehicle owners have to spend an additional $710 a year in vehicle maintenance when they live in Tulsa or $635 a year if they live in OKC---because of poorly maintained roads---. No- they did not mention the additional costs for the 3rd largest city in Oklahoma, which would be Lawton.
Now, someone could mention the revitalization effort made for the downtown area and highlight the nice streets there, but it has not attracted new businesses as they had hoped and still carries a ghost town atmosphere. Last year, I saw over 100 days above 100 degrees and this causes concrete to expand. The moisture from the Gulf of Mexico makes it way up and the cool air from the Rockies makes it way down making Oklahoma pristine for super-cell tornadoes. The flat plains allow the wind to go wherever it wishes, which is being captured by windmill farms all over the state, but you still get humidity, low winter temperatures, and wind, which equals winter ice storms.
Engineers and designers know enough about the wind currents of the Great Plains to plant windmill farms in the path, but they don't bury power cables which will snap under the weight of ice in a winter storm. Go figure...
Wrap it all up into the following: blistering summer heat, consistent winter ice and you get downed power lines and crappy roads. They also have a history of neglecting local bridges here, which are the first to experience extreme weather. Often, they are faced with the choice of condemning a bridge or taking 18 months as a minimum to rebuild it completely. It reminds me of the time it took for that segment of 38th Street---enormous!
When you talk of Base Realignment and Closure (BRAC), and the construction going on in Fort sill, you are talking about an ongoing process. The funding for the construction was approved back in 2009 or so, but construction marginally started in 2011. The old mayor of Ft. Sill (Garrison commander) is rumored to have delayed this construction to passively force new incoming military families to rent off-base to boost the Lawton economy. Fort Sill Housing is riddled with design flaws and some of the buildings need major modifications to get fully functional. It is what it is.
I know two police officers in Lawton. They are good guys and they both acknowledged that Lawton is the 8th worst city in America in the category of violent crime directed against women when I asked them if this were true. They even replied, "If we were 10th, 15th, or 50th, would it matter?" I have even noticed on more than one occasion, leaving my wife on her own in the check-out line at Wal-Mart is simply asking for a sideline comment from a local, or an 'accidental' shopping cart in the Achilles tendon.
If you have ever looked at a video on YouTube called "The people of Wal-Mart", rest assured, they are here too.
Street gangs here are unacceptable when you look at the size of the city. You can justify it away by saying all cities in America have gangs if you want, but the ratio in Lawton is out-of-balance. Lawton needs highways to exist. Gangs are a part of Lawton. Gang activity can be impeded with highway checkpoints, but they don't do such a thing here. They have a road that runs East-West, (parallel to Fort Sill's southern boundary) called Roger's Lane (US 62) and the city sponges off Ft. Sill traffic with military payday speed traps around the I-44, Sheridan Road and Ft. Sill Blvd overpasses. They will also put an occasional OHP speed trap just south of the Polo Field on I-44 to get folks in a 55 mph zone after the 75 mph limit from OKC, but noticeable efforts from the Lawton Anti Gang unit are few. I haven't gotten around to asking what that is about. I leave a light on, put my car in the garage and lock up at night- every night.
I don't like all the toll booths scattered across I-44. They're using the revenues for other projects. 5 bucks in change to go to Oklahoma City and back on a crappy interstate highway. So then, why would I go to Oklahoma City? Well, maybe I would like to eat in a Waffle House instead of a Lawton "Sunrise & Shine Omelet Grill". I don't like it when my forearms stick to the table. I go to Oklahoma City to shop at a Kohl's or eat at Jack in the Box. I like to get a USA Today newspaper at a location other than Cracker Barrel. Let's sum it up like this:
Those "Normal shops" like Sears, Dillards, JC Penny's, The Gap, Game Stop, Radio Shack, Zales, Gordons, Kay Jewelry and other smaller shops... yeah, those are downsized versions of what you are used to. If you want a pair of men's size 12 loafers, you had better help unload the boxes from the truck because if you wait for the shoes to be sold on the showroom floor, you're going to go without. If you want a Chaps long sleeve button-down shirt 34/35, neck size 17, either drive to OKC or get it online. A leaf rake at the beginning of fall at Lowe's? A $100 window air conditioner in May? A spring jacket in April? Either move up to a XXL jacket or go without. You cannot shop on impulse and buy what you need when you need it. Here is how to overcome the issue:
1) Get a valid address that has internet access. AT&T does not always have a slot because they overbook their bandwidth, failed to run a fiber optic backbone cable back in the day, etc. Fidelity works better, but they do not always cover the whole city. You may have to call Wichita Online for a 4G modem. If you use your cell phone, Verizon and Sprint work better than the rest. U.S. Cellular seems to be decent also, but T-Mobile and AT&T wireless are at the absolute bottom of the barrel. Check your address against a coverage map on the provider's website before signing the lease.
2) Buy your window mounted air conditioner at Lowe's in the winter when it is in stock. If you see size 12 shoes at Sam's when you really only went there to get 40 lbs of Kingsford charcoal, buy both the charcoal and the shoes. Conversely, you could just get the shoes. They'll always have charcoal.
--OR--
3) Enjoy the hassle-free method of shopping in Lawton- get an amazon prime account.
About the Wal Mart on Sheridan Road- it's embarrassing to shop there. It's cluttered and it's purely ghetto. If you have a car that runs, go out to the Wal Mart on 67th Street- referred to as the "new" Wal Mart. Also on Sheridan Road- when the weather is nice, you'll see people pulling chairs and coolers out of their pickups, typically early evening-time on a Friday. They just sit out in the parking lots of other stores along "the strip" and watch cars drive by. Drivers feel the audience and start hot-dogging around. Nascar fans have to get their fun when no race is on TV somehow, right? Friday night fun in Lawton...
If you are not from Lawton, you probably already know that Office Depot and Staples are not specifically computer stores. It is not their primary market. You can pay through your nose and hope they get your machine fixed if you want, or you can go to some local AAA computer repair shop and pay a little more. I do all my own repairs and upgrades because I have an Amazon Prime account. I didn't have one before I moved here. My computers and printers work. If you have a problem with yours, post a reply to this message and I'll find an IT friend that can talk you through it.
As far as Movie Theaters go- the Carmike on 67th Street is pretty decent, but you're going to pay as you would in any theater. Redbox and Netflix do the job for me. If you are looking for entertainment, they have plenty of bars and churches here and neither are in danger of going out of business.
They keep adding stuff to the Elmer Thomas Park, but the lake has a "fish from home" program which people like. They also clean their fish there and leave the unwanted fish parts laying about.
I like the museum of the Great Plains and afterwards I may look at books in Hastings. If I want to go to Barnes & Noble or browse at a Best Buy, I have to drive to Norman or Wichita Falls. Sigh- back to Amazon.com...
That trailer park on the East side of Lawton is a nice place, but they also rent to people from Lawton. There's your problem. If they would get more owners, it would be better.
My kids are done with school and I'm glad they finished before I moved here. You will see the results of the public school system just by looking at Craigslist/Lawton.
Traffic is so silly for lunch that I don't bother. People wait about 30 seconds when the light turns green because they expect crossing traffic to run the red light. People race from one streetlight to the next, only to be one car length ahead of you. They text and drive, they love their Harleys and pickups with loud pipes, they have the horse trailers out on Saturdays and they love using the drive-through whenever they can.
Solution for Day shift traffic- if you need 20 minutes to get to work by 8:00 AM, leave at 7:15. Lawton doesn't start that early and you won't get stuck in the I.D. check line when entering Fort Sill. Pack a lunch and eat at work. If you like your food refrigerated and microwaved along with the senseless driving hassle, then Olive Garden, Chili's, Applebees, LoneStar, Santa Fe Cattle Company, Outback,...are waiting for you. If you are heading out that way, let me know so I can ask you to return a redbox movie for me.
Those are my experiences. Oklahoma has a large gun-owner population and Lawton is a part of Oklahoma, so don't get offended when someone does not let you merge into traffic. Don't flip off the Ford F-350 that's riding your rear bumper. You cannot teach anyone to be courteous here and neither can I. Change your route and let them irritate someone else that thinks he can teach. They will sort each other out.
Stillwater sounds a little like Lawton, but thankfully not too much like it, since I can't believe Lawton does not have a Best Buy store. Stillwater has one and have liked shopping and buying some there.
Maybe downtown Lawton has frustration with revitalization from competing with the enclosed mall also located there.
I can do without the more days of summer heat Lawton has.
First let me say that I am from Lawton so what I post maybe a tad defensive of my home town.
People see Lawton for what it is in their eyes. They don't like traffic, so they grip about it. They don't like seeing cattle trailers going down streets even though this is Southwestern Oklahoma where Cattle farmers are a plenty so they grip about it. They can't shop at the "BIG" name stores that are in Oklahoma City or Tulsa or where ever they just came from, so they grip about it.
Lawton is not perfect. And I truely wish people would stop comparing it to other towns in Oklahoma or other towns in other states. It is what it is, the 5th largest city in Oklahoma with a large Military contigent that is constantly changing the population base.
So with that here is what I can say....
Lawton use to have City leaders that didn't want to see the town grow. Reason why this was has been rumored to be that those older leaders were afraid to see it grow to the size of Norman, Moore, OKC. They liked to have control over what goes on here.
Over the last two years that system has changed and the people of Lawton have finally put their foot down, people like myself that grew up with only shopping at K-Mart, Sears and what ever store was in the Central Mall at the time, got tired of not seeing new retail development come to Lawton and let the City leaders know that it is time for a change.
Major retail shopping centers are underdevelopment right now due to that change. 82nd and Quanna Parker Trailway has the Lawton Towncenter being developed and with that will be Target, Lane Bryant, Michaels and a few more stores and resturants. 2nd and Gore Blvd is part of a big downtown revitalization project that will bring a Hilton Garden Inn & Convention Center as well as Kohl's and a few more stores that have not been announced yet. Both areas should be completed by Christmas next year.
Rib Crib just opened at end of Aug. Jimmy's Egg just opened. Jack n the box has started work on building a store. My Dentist has just completed building an office and more resturants and retail stores on their way besides what has been announced for the other projects stated above.
I have never had a problem getting size 12 loafers, shoes, boots, or any style shirt/pants. I shop at Walmart, Sears and a local Mens dress shop across from the Central Mall. About the only thing I order online is computer parts to build or fix computers for friends and family. The only time I did have a problem getting an item at Lowe's was a snow shovel when a winter storm dumped ice and snow on us and my snow shovel broke. No problem, went to local hardware store and got one for the same price Lowe's had it for.
Roads here are the same as any city in Oklahoma. Roads buckle because of the heat. The city does it's best to repair these buckles when they happen as well as patch the pot holes. The City just finished the with the expansion of 38th street from Gore Blvd to Cache Rd. They also just finished with a bridge rebuild on Santa Fe and 40th. If anyone understands what a city has to go through to get funding for a projects like these knows it is not an overnight project. Each month the City works at resurfacing roads in housing areas that need it the most.
Toll booths on I-44 and other Highways in Oklahoma are here to stay. Do we like them, NO. If you don't like them, there are side roads you can take to get to OKC and Texas. Will it take longer to get where you are wanting to go, yes, but at least it will save you $10 to OKC and back or $3.25 to Wichita Falls and back.
And yes, there are speed traps on Rogers Lane and I-44. But what do you expect. The speed limit on Rogers Lane is 50 MPH. People think they are allowed to go 70-80 MPH. The speed Traps are few and far between and if you get caught, that is your fault for speeding. On I-44 the speed limit is 55 mph between Gore Blvd and the end of the exit /entrance ramps of Rogers Lane or about 2 miles. After that it is increased to 60 and then 70 mph. Signs are clearly posted several times and it doesn't drop rapidly like you would see in most speed traps. People ignore the 55 mph posted limit and so if you are doing 70mph and you get caught it is your fault.
Ft. Sill housing is in the middle of building a new 450+ housing area on post. In late 2009 the untis were approved to be built. The project was put out to bid in 2010 and construction for them started last 2011. The Garrison commander of Ft. Sill had nothing to do with delaying it. Once a unit is completed and inspected, soldiers are allowed to move into them. Ft. Sill plans on remodeling older housing areas as the Government budget allows.
There are also new housing areas being built all around Lawton and in other towns withing 15 miles of Lawton. Each of these areas are required to have underground electrical lines when they build them. The cost is to great to have the housing areas that have been in Lawton for centuries convert to underground lines.
Lawton does have it share of gangs. What big city doesn't. Problem is this, the gangs normally are not the ones causing the crime, most of the time it is stupid individuals that are causing the problem. Boyfriend mad at former girlfriend so he attack current boyfriend. Drunk guy thinks he is Superman and can take on the world. People feel it is easier to rob an elderly person than it is to get a freaking job and so on. The Police have no control over idiots like this. Do the gangs to their share of crime, yes. The police do their best to monitor where they are but can't be everywhere because they are understaffed and underfunded.
Entertainment in and around Lawton is available for those that care to open up their eyes. Two movie theaters - Showplex 12 in the Central Mall and Carmike 8 on West Cache Rd., Lawton does have a playhouse theater where several times a year plays are performed. Medicine Park has several FREE concerts a year from country to blues and other styles. Lawton Speedway is a dirt oval track that has sprint, late model and other race cars that local and state drivers race at from spring to fall each Saturday night.
Each Saturday during the early spring to late fall there is some kind of Poker Run supporting some sort of cause (Cancer, MD, United Way, Wounded Warriors and more). Because of Southwest Oklahoma's weather and the Wichita Mountains, motorcycle owners/riders love to ride their bikes here. In fact, the Harley Davidson Owners Group will be having their State Ralley at Ft. Sill this year (2012) in October. Hundreds upon Hundreds of Motorcyles will desend down on Lawton/Ft.Sill for this four day event.
Also, the people pulling coolers and chairs out at the Wal-mart on Sheridan are actually high School and college kids just hanging out and around 10:30 or so they are gone. The police monitor their activity. That part of Lawton back in the 80's use to be called the strip or the cruise. Friday and Saturdays it was the place to be expecially after high school football games. It has been toned down alot over the years.
The public School system here is stretched thin, but what school system isn't. There are three high schools in Lawton. Lawton High and Eisenhower are 6A schools while Mac Aurther is a 5A school. All three schools recently added more classrooms. There are 4 Middle schools or Jr High schools. Should Lawton build another High School and Middle school, yes, but there is no budget for them. Nice to build but if you can't afford to hire teachers why build them. I personally think it is not the school system but the student that makes the difference. Those that want to learn will, the only one stopping somone from getting an education is the person not wanting to learn.
Also, Cameron Univeristy is one of the top Divison II schools around. No they don't have football, still mad about that one, but they do offer Degree programs for just about anyone looking for a degree.
That Trailer park in East Lawton is rented by people in Lawton, but also to Ft. Sill soldiers. I know several owners of those trailers and some are Soldiers. Some traliers are being rented out because the soldier got deployed to another post and plan on coming back to Lawton after they retire or get out of the Army.
You can teach anyone to be courteous here, but it starts by showing them how it is done by saying thank you, opening a door for someone and not just a lady but anyone. Saying Hi to a stranger can change someones attitude for the day. Letting somone in line while waiting for a red light to change green. Waving at someone to say thank you for letting you in line while waiting for a red light to change green. I do all the above and more. Do I get thank you's and waves back, not all the time, but I don't expect it, if it happens then so be it. My thought is that maybe, just maybe I changed their bad day to a good day for doing someone as silly as Opening a door for them.
So, Lawton does have it's share of problems and while some people just can't stand to be in a Military city and what comes with that, many people that live here love it. Many soldiers retire and come back to Lawton to live. If that is the case, then Lawton can't be all that bad.
Please don't feel like you have apologize. A city's greatness should only be measured by the good character and friendliness of its people, not by the number of skyscrapers or expensive stores it has.
Please don't feel like you have apologize. A city's greatness should only be measured by the good character and friendliness of its people, not by the number of skyscrapers or expensive stores it has.
Well said. When I read a rant as the one several posts above that takes up nearly one page and reads of nothing but negativity, I realize that I'm only looking at half of the picture. Look at CD postings about Santa Fe, Sedona, AZ or Newport, RI, and you'll read about rude people, air pollution, too many liberals/conservatives, not enough liberals/conservatives, the high cost of Starbuck's, etc.
Lawton is far from perfect but it's a farther cry from Cabrini Green.
I don't live in Lawton, but I do make a visit about once a month.
A few random good and bad things I've noticed about the city:
If you have to go to central mall, go in the morning before the punks and rednecks show up!
I took an evening class at Cameron once. It's a nice campus and felt safe to me.
I also took the motorcycle rider safety course at Great Plains Tech Center. The course was excellent as were the policeman teaching it. I bought a bike at Lawton Yamaha-Honda... the head sales guy there, Steve, is great.
Drive patiently, because there are a lot of crazies out there.
Atlanta Bread was disappointing. Panera is leaps and bounds ahead of this place.
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The Lawton truth
