Lawton or Grove? Which is better? (Tulsa, Muskogee: real estate, foreclosures, luxury)

[Manhattan-ite]

PeggyDavis, please don't get me wrong and please apologize if you got offended. There was no snobbery intended in what I wrote, just my impression of the place.

Somebody said she thought Grove was the cutest town and I said that I don't find it cute at all but kind of old, rusty and filled with trailer parks. It's just my personal impression of what I saw.

Some people like it, some people don't. It's good that we all have different opinions, and it is great that we have a forum to discuss them. Wouldn't it be boring if we all agreed and thought the same?

I have nothing against the South. I think it is beautiful and I would like to visit the Deep South (Alabama, Mississippi).

Cheers!

[Kurt]

Originally Posted by jsherman9901

Ummmm... Quartz Mountain State Park is 75 miles from Lawton and as far as I know, there are no houses built on the lake. It is used for irrigation, so the level fluctuates greatly.

The best thing that Lawton has going for it is the Wichita Mountains, just a few miles north and west of town. The wildlife refuge is spectacular. Other than that, Lawton is a seedy, dirty Army town with crime higher than the national average. I would not live there.

Well, yes, I admit that it is somewhat removed from Lawton, but I was thinking of the Wichita Mountain area in general and since Grove was mentioned I then put a lake together with the mountains. I am sure I came across a real estate site somewhere that had a house on the lake--which is really Lake Altus and not Quartz Mountain. You are certainly correct in that it is not really developed--But you do sell it a bit short. There is a beautiful resort and golf course on the lake and big lake trout in the lake. So there is a resort and even swimming. And the water is not salty or alkaline--but fresh and clean. Most of the land is undoubtably owned by the state. Anyway, my friend liked Lawton. And one thing you cannot argue--the Witchita Mountains are very beautiful! Not sure what you mean by a dirty Army town? You mean lots of bars and pawn shops? I don't think that army and dirty are necessarily synonymous. And I suppose "seedy" means rundown? Your post is really rather negative. But you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

[jsherman9901]

Originally Posted by Kurt

Not sure what you mean by a dirty Army town? You mean lots of bars and pawn shops? I don't think that army and dirty are necessarily synonymous. And I suppose "seedy" means rundown? Your post is really rather negative. But you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

I call it like I see it, man. I used to live in the Lawton area and, like I said, it is a dirty, seedy town. Cheap motels, bars, adult bookstores, that sort of thing. And the town is *ugly*. Not much more to say than that.

[Kurt]

Originally Posted by jsherman9901

I call it like I see it, man. I used to live in the Lawton area and, like I said, it is a dirty, seedy town. Cheap motels, bars, adult bookstores, that sort of thing. And the town is *ugly*. Not much more to say than that.

The great thing about America is that we can agree to disagree. Of course, since I have never been to Lawton I can't get too worked up about it.

But I sort of like to look at the sunny side of life as I am getting to old not to. God Bless. At least you like the wildlife reserve.

[jessaka]

Some people come on here and say that no one from CA would like it in Ok due to the lack of culture.

And it is hard for those that have lived in certain areas in other States to adjust, and I can understand that too. In certain cities of CA you have everything you ever dreamed of at the tips of your fingers, of course you have to fight traffic to get there and then you have to fight commuter traffic to get home. You also have fancy restaurants with great food, and that is okay if you want to pay $50 to $100 a meal. But hey, it is there, as are the expensive plays, concerts, etc. And if you go to them consider it an all day trip to get to them even though they are 30 miles away or closer.

Now I admit, some people don't adjust after moving here, and perhaps they are just not looking at their move in the correct way. Why did they move here in the first place? If they are unhappy can they move back? If not, why? You know you can't have everything. When I was living in San Diego people called it paradise because the weather was always nice. I didn't like the weather because I considered it NO weather. Trees stayed green all year, it only went from 65 in winter to maybe 80 but mostly 75. Hey, maybe for some that is nice. Now I live in an area that has weather and I have loved every season so far. Summer is yet to come.

I have been to a play in Tahlequah and I never went to them in CA. Why? I didn't want to deal with traffic. And the play here was good. I have found some very good restaurants in Tahlequah, but it took me a while, and they don't cost an arm and a leg, nor do I have to fight traffic to get to them or pay expensive prices. I have found some nice shopping in different areas, and I hope that Tahlequah never gets a mall, but I know that someday they most likely will.

[nmnita]

Jessaka,

I similar discussion is going on over on the Arkansas forum. Certain people from California as well as many people from New England and the Pacific NO West just can't imagine living anywhere without the cultural amenities they deem so very important. Why they would consider moving to the mid west or most of the south is beyond me.

I refer to them as cultural snobs. This is their right and yet, why do they want to re-locate or even visit just to try and change the place they have decided to call home.

Like you, we have chosen to get away from the rat race. If we decide we miss it there is the word vacation. Go back and visit what you think you miss.

By the way, I certainly don't come from a culturally deprived or un-educated family. I have just learned there is something nice about every place. yes, like you said if you want to see a play you can even in hicksville. It may not be top stars but it is the same. In fact here about 6 months ago we saw "Westside story" (for the 5th time btw) it was at a casino I will have you know and probably the best redition (spelling) we have seen for about $25 per person.

Before I get totally flamed I want to make it clear I am generalizing and don't think everyone from the places I mentioned are snobs. I was born in Calif, I love visting the New England states and have respect for many I know living on the Pacific North coast.

Nita

[Jammie]

You are both so right about moving TO an area instead of running FROM an area. Actually though, for me~I'd be running from the sub-zero temps and snowfalls. But I could go back if things didn't work out. BUT I don't believe I'd go back to the same area~maybe just go out to the Hills.

I have never lived in an area like you girls are describing so I wouldn't be "giving up" anything. We aren't shoppers and don't go to fancy restaurants or fancy plays so there would be nothing we would be losing out on.

Just curious~Jess and Nita, have either of you been to Tulsa yet?

[peggydavis]

That's OK, Manhatten-ite. Every place has its good and bad characteristics, and I think we in Oklahoma have a tendency to look at the good and ignore the bad. We have learned the importance of positive thinking. That's just part of our culture.

I spent a week in Manhatten a few years ago. We had a great time, saw almost all the sights (too much to see), and I thought people were pretty friendly in their own way, and definitely not rude as the stereotype goes. I also saw things not really that impressive, and wondered really how can people live like this. But that is the point of traveling, to see something different and see how people live in other parts of the country. I don't expect to encounter only my own culture, nor do I become bothered by the culture of other areas. What would be the point?

I remember how hard it was for me to move to Oklahoma, many years ago. I don't know what was worse, the culture shock or the weather shock. But, now I love Oklahoma and know that other people can too.

[Manhattan-ite]

That is a problem affecting America now- people move out of their states because it is too expensive and land in a place where they can buy a lot of land but no amenities. So they don't like it. And they complain. And they want to go back to California.

First of all, something should be done about the housing costs in most states. As Jammie said, very cheap places such as Tulsa-Oklahoma will soon be the only areas in America where a family can afford to buy a house. This is a tragedy, and I would expect both the private and public sectors to do "something" to help the middle class afford a life in their hometowns.

Second, and we've discussed this many times before, if you leave California or New York because it's too expensive and move to Oklahoma, Arkansas, Alabama or wherever, know what you're doing. Don't buy just because you can. And if you do move, don't come here sobbing and saying there are rednecks down South and trailer parks and Bible fanatics and no gourmet stores or Armani shoppes.

Well, sure! You should have known better! This kind of people are not only snobs but stupid.

[Manhattan-ite]

PeggyDavis, I too wonder how people can survive in New York City sometimes. The cost of living is out of whack. In Tulsa you get a mansion for 300k- in Manhattan you'll get a tiny studio. And how about those 225,000-dollars parking spaces that have been in the news lately?

But of course you pay for having the world at your feet, and it ultimately is SO worth enjoying all the museums, parks, art, events, action and life in general here in the capital of the world. It's not for everyone, though, I know.

As for Oklahoma, I'm like you when you first moved there- when my wife and I fly there to visit the family, we're both in for a culture and weather shock.

But it's nice getting out of the Manhattan bubble and enjoying America.