Green Country Cities & Beauty (Tulsa, Muskogee: relocate, real estate, gated)

[SinCity]

I just returned from 2 weeks in Green Country region of OK and can now help others with their questions about the area.

For the last 2 years I have been researching cities in the U.S. that I could want to make my home for the second half of my life. Spalding's Places Rated, Find My Spot, and Internet provided ample information and I visited places and areas that best met my long list of criteria. The reasons for my search and the criteria are too extensive to get into here but the main goals were affordable real estate in an area that resembles where I grew up, the Black Hills of SD, without weather extremes in either summer or winter. I am thankful for my visit to Fayetteville, AR that led my sights to Green Country because none of my research did. I bought a home on 2 acres on Hwy 10 about 8 miles outside of Tahlequah and will be moved there by Oct. I am very happy with the home price ($180,000 for custom built in 2006 with 2463 SF), the city of Tahlequah, the surrounding areas in Green Country as well as the foothills and the city of Tulsa.

Keep in mind that my personal preferences are just that, personal and lengthly. I am not fond of the desert, not even high desert, and was looking for what I put a one word term on called "lush" which to me means hilly/mountainous, heavily treed, many lakes and rivers and streams, grass that doesn't have to be watered to be green most of the year, prefer city size around 20,000 or more (I must work) near a desirable large city with affordable air transportation.

For those with questions about specific areas in Green Country, you might want to take out the map and highlight the main roads of my excursion. Hwy 82, Hwy 59, Hwy 51, Hwy 10, Hwy 69, Hwy 62 and many gravle and dirt roads in between! If there was a house for sale sign, I turned there and checked it out. So a lot of the time I didn't know where I was! I stayed off the main toll roads and highways except for a couple miles on 412 near Locust Grove and quite a ways on I-40 from Sallisaw to Fort Smith, being that it was further south than I knew I wanted to be but wanted to see Fort Smith, and I'm so glad I did!

Tahlequah was a much larger and independent city than I expected. That is because the population fails to consider the many small towns around it that depend on it for services. It has quaint little shops, pubs and cafes you'd expect in a college town. It also a large selection of chain fast food places as WalMart and Lowes. The Sears store sells only appliances and yard equipment. People began to recognize my face and chat with me when they saw me. The Okies definitely lived up to their fame of friendliness. It was so refreshing.

before my visit, I thought Tahlequah may too small for employment needs so I was leaning towards Pryor and Wagoner on Hwy 69 due to its proximity to Tulsa in the event I would ever have to rely the bigger city for work. Pryor was too small and kind of worn. Wagoner was nice and a size one could expect to probably find employment but both cities were outside of the "lush" areas I was looking for. Much flatter which made it more marshy around the river than if it had more elevations. I loved Grove because of its proximity to Grand Lake, hilly downtown area, and overall flavor. However it is too secluded from any other city of size and would be much better suited to retirees I'd think. I also didn't like the large number of decrepid mobile homes squsihed into the armpits of each other wherever they could be near shoreline and coves. Again, a strong personal feeling is involved here. All over Green Country there are a lot of mobile homes and anyplace that had "villages" of them, regardless of their shape and appearance, turn me off.

Hulbert, Locust Grove, Welling, Park City and Keys are actually just burbs of Tahlequah. Though each are fairly self-sufficient, they depend on Tahlequah for a lot of services and needs. I liked all of them and would have considered buying a home in any of them if that's where the best home buy on over an acre was.

North of 412; Salina, Jay, Langley, Ketchum Bernice, and other towns on the way to Grove are all too secluded for my needs but all of them are in the beautiful hills along the lakes that I found to be very attractive. Kansas, at the east edge of Green Country is too flat and didn't twitter my pater at all.

Cookson and Fort Gibson are very small towns that are secluded but beautiful.

The biggest surprise of my trip had to have been my drive through Fort Smith. By far, that city exuded the most charming appearance that I've seen in a city for quite some time. It's too far south for me to consider but for someone who doesn't feel the need to be smack in the middle of the "lush", Fort Smith has very beautiful architecture and a surprising number of tall buildings that are not the boxy norm. From there I decided I ought to check out Eufala and I got there by hwy 9. Water, water water! It must be a fisherman's and boater's paradice. However the terrain was as flat as I expected it to be.

Muskogee... Hmmm. I stayed there 4 nights but spent my days on the road further north and east in "lusher" countryside of my interest. It is a city of size that I wasn't looking for and for reasons that Muskogee proved to be true. It's large enough to have all the amenities and is very near the "lush" (about 20 minutes from Tahlequah) but has some bad sections that are unattractive. What I like about most cities around 20,000 is the poor and middle class are neighbors rather than the obvious segregated sections.

Lastly, Tulsa. I loved it! It maintains a country feel despite its size, the residents feel it is a small town, and it has the kind of shopping I haven't had the pleasure to experience much in my life. Lots of stores that sell art, crafts, antiques, used furniture, etc. I enjoyed walking Main St in Jenks which is lined with antique stores. The River Walk area in Jenks is very nice and I can imagine it would be a fun place to go when they have their frequent live music. The river however wasn't very impressive. Very shallow, but water is water to a desert rat, so I felt it defitiely added a wonderful flavor. It is a BEAUTIFUL city and fulfills every criteria I was looking for in "nearby large city amenities." It's more progressive and well kept than I expected.

I hope that helps some of the folks who I see asking so many of the same questins I did on this forum. If I can answer questions more specific to your personal tastes, I'd be happy to.

[Synopsis]

Fantastic post SinCity. I'm sure that many people would appreciate your assessment of Green Country. I pretty much agreed with everything you said and I have been to all of those areas (some, long ago though). I'll definitely refer someone to your thread when asking about the area. Good job!

[Kurt]

Yes, it is a good post, SinCity. I do think that the Pryor area will be looking up with those 500 Google jobs and the potential for their industrial park. Lake Hudson is also very nice. Locust Grove has lots of potential. Overtime growth will even extend to Jay. Grove is all about resorts and retirees. Langley is kinda itty bitty but has promise. I think the only place to get a latte is Tallequah and now Grove--Java Daves. I do think that the area between Locust Grove, Spavinaw, Eucha, and Jay is poised for some major growth in the near future. If a better highway develops between Walmartville (Bentonville) and the east shore of Grand Lake it will all bust loose. Great airport in Bentonville--small but many good connections. I mentioned earlier that there was a price tag of 175K on 185 acres of rolling wooded and some meadow land between Eucha and Spavinaw. It is bordered by a paved road. Thanks again for your post.

[Jammie]

I agree with the Synopsis and Kurt~what a nice "trip report". It is very nice down there, isn't it? AND you were practically my neighbor when you grew up~the Hills are about a half a day away from me.

[SinCity]

Originally Posted by Kurt

Yes, it is a good post, SinCity. I do think that the Pryor area will be looking up with those 500 Google jobs and the potential for their industrial park. Lake Hudson is also very nice. Locust Grove has lots of potential. Overtime growth will even extend to Jay. Grove is all about resorts and retirees. Langley is kinda itty bitty but has promise. I think the only place to get a latte is Tallequah and now Grove--Java Daves. I do think that the area between Locust Grove, Spavinaw, Eucha, and Jay is poised for some major growth in the near future. If a better highway develops between Walmartville (Bentonville) and the east shore of Grand Lake it will all bust loose. Great airport in Bentonville--small but many good connections. I mentioned earlier that there was a price tag of 175K on 185 acres of rolling wooded and some meadow land between Eucha and Spavinaw. It is bordered by a paved road. Thanks again for your post.

Please tell more about the Google jobs and its relationship to Pryor. This is first I heard any such mention. I got lost outside of Locust Grove somewhere (later coudn't even trace my steps) and ran into an Industrial Park with very large companies of all kinds. It felt very isolated from any particular town. Where does all their work force come from? Is that where Google has plans?

[SinCity]

Jammie, I've been reading your posts for some time and wondered why someone with SD as their location was involved in the OK blog so much. Do you still live in SD, planning to relocate to OK, or do you have ties in OK that bring you there often? As much as I love home/Black Hills, I've lived without snow and cold for so many years now that I just couldn't make myself consider it as the place I'd want to live again. Most of my extended family coudn't be pried from there and all my siblings love to visit in the summer. So at least my family comprehends my fixation with green, trees and water. They just can't be convinced that type of oasis exists in OK!! Aren't they in for a great surprise?!

[peggydavis]

SinCity, nice post and I am glad you have found your new home. I laughed when on your other post you mentioned that you had been mispronouncing Tahlequah. It is hard to spell too! Now you can laugh with the rest of us when you hear Oklahoma town names being mangled on the national news.

[Synopsis]

That's funny. Yes, most of those Indian names are a bit much for people from out of state. Here's something interesting:
The name " Tulsa" (originally spelled Tulsey or Tulsee) is a shortened pronunciation of Tallasi, which is almost certainly a contraction of Tullahassee or Tallahassee, meaning "Old Town"("Tulwa," meaning town, and "ahassee," meaning something old) in the Creek language.

[SinCity]

Yes, I was amazed when people would give me directions how well they could pronounce the many street names and how confused I was before I found the streets because I'd make my turn at one that sounded similar to it... or so I thought. It will take awhile before I sound like a local for sure!

[Jammie]

Originally Posted by SinCity

Jammie, I've been reading your posts for some time and wondered why someone with SD as their location was involved in the OK blog so much. Do you still live in SD, planning to relocate to OK, or do you have ties in OK that bring you there often? As much as I love home/Black Hills, I've lived without snow and cold for so many years now that I just couldn't make myself consider it as the place I'd want to live again. Most of my extended family coudn't be pried from there and all my siblings love to visit in the summer. So at least my family comprehends my fixation with green, trees and water. They just can't be convinced that type of oasis exists in OK!! Aren't they in for a great surprise?!

The funny thing is~we have no ties to OKlahoma. But years ago I had seen pics of Tulsa and it had always been on the top of my "must see" list. We ended up vacationing in a few different places first and finally last Oct. we went there. For about two years before that, I'd been on a Tulsa forum and thought the people even seemed genuine and nice down there. Not really much different from right here. And of course, there were pics posted there so we definitely had to go and see for ourselves.

We are still toying with the idea of moving since my DH will be 62 next March and we'll actually be free to live wherever we want. (As long as it's a somewhat affordable place) DH doesn't mind our cold and snow, but I've always hated it and I have a touch of osteo stuff going on and a touch of fibromyalgia. I'm fine in the spring and summer, but autumn and winter are a bit rough for me. AND I'm convinced I have a touch of SAD, too~Seasonal Affective Disorder.

We LOVE the Black Hills, just like you do, but it still gets a bit chilly out there. So I really do understand why you'd hesitate to move back there. Not many places in the country with the beauty of the Hills though.

Grove is actually the place we fell in love with. BUT there doesn't seem to be employment there, which I will need for several more years. DH will be able to get by without working fulltime though. Don't get me wrong~We LOVED Tulsa, but I'm sure you can understand that it's a bit huge compared to what we're used to. Tulsa and metro have more people then our entire state. Tulsa is probably a low crime area for a city, too, but I follow the Tulsa World and you can also understand that we're a bit overwhelemed with the crime. So. Dak. is still low crime, at least for now.

So, to make a long story short, OK is still a definite possibility in our future.