[_redbird_]

Originally Posted by BigOkie

This is exactly my point. The only reason I'm not on the Dawes Rolls is because my great-great grandmother who was full blood Cherokee Indian did not live in Oklahoma at the time of the dispersements, so therefore she had no claim to lands here, and thus she was not enrolled in the books. So, while she was a full blood Cherokee Indian, she was never given a right or claim to land here.

While that might sound petty on my part to some, I look at people whom I know have a much lower 'quantum' than I and hear of them talking about going to Claremore or Tahlequah and getting all their medical needs taken care of for little to no cost, knowing I pay 200 dollars a month in medical insurance and still have a 10 percent copay for the most part.

It just feels unfair, is my point.

I pay way more than $200 a month for medical, dental, etc health insurance. And I take Health Choice High so I don't have to copay. But that is neither here nor there.

Should I look at GP, Synopse, and LR and ask them how much they pay per month for medical exams and Rx? Its none of my business what they pay, and you should stop fretting over your perceived "not getting what you should be getting." That resentment might be what is fueling your resentment every time you see a Cherokee tribal tag. Which by the way sounds pretty freaking petty to me!

I see tribes trying to take advantage of business ventures in the form of gas stations, smoke shops, grocery stores, tags, and glamorized bingo parlors (casinos) to pay for their own way. Your perceptions are based on your own life experiences. I have been denied service at a diner twice in my life simply because I am Indian. I would be willing to bet you have never experienced that in Oklahoma.

Do First Nations "abuse" the system by not paying proper taxes for ciggies, and thereby "cheating the state" out of monies owed, or are they simply exercising their rights as a sovereign nation to sell smokes without being extorted? Its called strong arm in prison. Some big guy walks into some little guy's cell and says you will pay me to live peacefully on this yard.

I think the tribes are simply thumbing their nose at the system. Call it what you will.

I also have story of being cheated to share. The Kiowa/Comanche/Apache reservation in southwest Oklahoma was over a million acres was taken by the "white lie" told to the respective Chiefs they would be receiving monies to "allow the white man to use the land", instead of telling the Indian leaders they were selling out and each being given 160 acres allotment. When the Chiefs realized they had been lied to they tried to go to Washington DC. But you know what Washingon DC said? Game on!

Pretty shrewd business deals are to be had when the Indians didn't speak english. You have your stories of corrupt tribal officials and we have ours.

So my answer to white resentments over glamorized bingo parlors (casinos) raking in the dough is the same.

GAME ON!

[BigOkie]

Originally Posted by redbird4848

I pay way more than $200 a month for medical, dental, etc health insurance. And I take Health Choice High so I don't have to copay. But that is neither here nor there.

Should I look at GP, Synopse, and LR and ask them how much they pay per month for medical exams and Rx? Its none of my business what they pay, and you should stop fretting over your perceived "not getting what you should be getting." That resentment might be what is fueling your resentment every time you see a Cherokee tribal tag. Which by the way sounds pretty freaking petty to me!

I see tribes trying to take advantage of business ventures in the form of gas stations, smoke shops, grocery stores, tags, and glamorized bingo parlors (casinos) to pay for their own way. Your perceptions are based on your own life experiences. I have been denied service at a diner twice in my life simply because I am Indian. I would be willing to bet you have never experienced that in Oklahoma.

Do First Nations "abuse" the system by not paying proper taxes for ciggies, and thereby "cheating the state" out of monies owed, or are they simply exercising their rights as a sovereign nation to sell smokes without being extorted? Its called strong arm in prison. Some big guy walks into some little guy's cell and says you will pay me to live peacefully on this yard.

I think the tribes are simply thumbing their nose at the system. Call it what you will.

I also have story of being cheated to share. The Kiowa/Comanche/Apache reservation in southwest Oklahoma was over a million acres was taken by the "white lie" told to the respective Chiefs they would be receiving monies to "allow the white man to use the land", instead of telling the Indian leaders they were selling out and each being given 160 acres allotment. When the Chiefs realized they had been lied to they tried to go to Washington DC. But you know what Washingon DC said? Game on!

Pretty shrewd business deals are to be had when the Indians didn't speak english. You have your stories of corrupt tribal officials and we have ours.

So my answer to white resentments over glamorized bingo parlors (casinos) raking in the dough is the same.

GAME ON!

OK, now you guys are putting words in my mouth. I was making a point. I never said I was fretting about it; I did say however, I felt it was unfair.

It seems some of you want to push a point on me that I have some sort of problem. I'm over it, and have been for some time. I just fail to see where some of you can try and put words in my mouth for me.

Sheesh. Do something constructive instead of trying scold me for what you perceive to be my shortcomings.

[colleeng47]

Originally Posted by BigOkie

OK, now you guys are putting words in my mouth. I was making a point. I never said I was fretting about it; I did say however, I felt it was unfair.

It seems some of you want to push a point on me that I have some sort of problem. I'm over it, and have been for some time. I just fail to see where some of you can try and put words in my mouth for me.

Sheesh. Do something constructive instead of trying scold me for what you perceive to be my shortcomings.

Awfully senstive, aren't we?

[BigOkie]

Originally Posted by colleeng47

Awfully senstive, aren't we?

Do people put words in your mouth? I sure don't. I will be sensitive about that issue and won't be ashamed to say it.

[_redbird_]

Originally Posted by BigOkie

OK, now you guys are putting words in my mouth. I was making a point. I never said I was fretting about it; I did say however, I felt it was unfair.

It seems some of you want to push a point on me that I have some sort of problem. I'm over it, and have been for some time. I just fail to see where some of you can try and put words in my mouth for me.

Sheesh. Do something constructive instead of trying scold me for what you perceive to be my shortcomings.

Objection noted. Strike the word fretting. Done! You raised several good points. Corruption in tribal affairs, unpaid taxes on smoke shops.

Personally, I think a tribe SHOULD pay all taxes on smokes, its the law and its the moral, ethical thing to do period.

But I know a little more about the behind the scenes of casinos and tribal government than most.

Also, most Indians will tell you the IHS is pretty bad. We never get the latest Rx. If you see a commercial for some new diabetic med, you can be darn sure the IHS won't have it for 5 years. I have been to IHS in OKC, western OK, south central OK, and KS, and its always the same.

And we always joke about being afraid if ever are admitted to the Indian Hospital in Lawton or Ada. You could come out with your leg amputated when you went in for a broken arm. Other than the Rx, I would take a regular MD anyday.

We had the best diabetic physician in the world here, but the poor guy received his doctorate in 1930. And that is no joke. He was great and we all loved him, but he could barely see, walk, or hear his patients.

Funny part is there are more and more non-Indians going to the IHS nowadays. Be careful what you wish for.

[Goodpasture]

The problem is, if we had decent medical delivery services in this country (the way the rest of the industrialized world does) the whole Indian health thing would be moot.

FWIW, Schousse and I do not have health insurance. We cannot get it at any price. Schousse had Sooner Care because of her cancer last year, but at this point in my life if I get seriously ill, I die. I will not bankrupt my family for a couple of extra years.

As far as the Indian Casinos are concerned, I think that is a tempest in a teapot. If you don't want money to go to the Nations, don't go to the Casino. Don't want tax free cigarettes? Don't go to an Indian Smoke Shop. Probably a good idea to not smoke anyway.

AFAIC, I would just as soon the Cherokee, Osage, or Kiowa get tobacco or Casino money as give it to the folks that run Las Vegas or Atlantic City or to the government.

And I would support giving it to the Creek Nation, even though my Greatx5 Grandad was killed by them during the Creek Wars in Georgia.

[nmnita]

Man, how did we get so far off the subject. It started as a decison on casinos and now it is getting into health care, which borders on politics. I thought politics had its own thread....

Nita

[karibear]

Originally Posted by nmnita

Man, how did we get so far off the subject. It started as a decison on casinos and now it is getting into health care, which borders on politics. I thought politics had its own thread....

Nita

It's intertwined. Casino money, health care delivery [which can be totally rotten outside the IHS, also], tribal politics, where $$ go. Everything is connected to everything else, one way or another.

[colleeng47]

At least we're having a lively discussion. Things have been dead around here for too long.

[karibear]

Originally Posted by colleeng47

At least we're having a lively discussion. Things have been dead around here for too long.

I tried. Can't have a one-sided conversation, though. At least I can, I talk to my dogs and sometimes they blink back at me. I generally take that as an agreement.

By and large, I agree with some of what everyone says, but it's fun debating it all anyway. Nice to see people thinking for themselves, instead of quoting party lines.