[Mattie Jo]

Originally Posted by Griffis

Personally I can't WAIT to get out of here. In fact, I've left a few times but always end up being lured back because of family issues. My own family plans to leave the end of this year or early next year. FOR GOOD.

I know tons of people who can't wait to split Oklahoma. Just about everyone I went to undergrad college couldn't wait to leave, and they left as soon as they could. I'm in grad school now and aside from the people in the program who already have jobs in the state they are trying to advance in, pretty much everyone I know wants to leave.

Here are the pros:

-Relatively inexpensive
-Relatively low crime (outside of Tulsa and OKC)
-Relatively friendly people

And here are the cons (the way I see 'em):

-Incredibly muggy, humid, hotter than hell summers (about a month and a half of well over 100% temps with zero rain this summer)
-Little to no culture
-Rednecks, rednecks, rednecks
-Ultra conservative rednecks
-Ultra Christian rednecks
-Nothing to do but futtbawl
-No scenery to speak of. All the surrounding states are prettier. Most of Oklahoma is flat, ugly and baked yellow and brown from the heat

Hi Griffis,

I think you are the one that told me years ago that Tahlequah was the best town in Oklahoma and the east part was the best. Am I right?

I have been to okc and surrounding area, and it is pretty. I have dealt with the ultra Christian and conservation people, and it isn't fun, but you can find people that are open minded and make up for the shunning done by Christians and consersatives when they find out that you are not one of them. It isn't easy, but it is possible. But hey, CA has the same problems if you are around certain people. I called my CA friend who was upset over things that the conservatives around her were saying. There is more things to do than football. I have had a lot of fun here in OK and I don't plan on moving. If you are the person that steered me in this direction I thank you again.

[Mattie Jo]

Originally Posted by Griffis

Jammie, as much as I bash it (I'm really sick of being here but I also get itchy feet and need a change now and then), there are some things to recommend about Oklahoma (see prior post)...the rednecks aren't as big a problem in bigger cities, but it's still there.

Unfortunately, OKC and Tulsa have quite high violent crime rates anymore. Well above the national average, and make NYC look like a safe haven.

Grove is pretty in parts (run down in others...surrounding area is pretty) Tahlequah is fairly charming for a town in OK. Even Paul's Valley, South of OCK is pretty, though depressed--it does have Sulfur Springs nearby which, despite the foul name, has some prettiness to it.

There are some people (who shall remain Nameless!) who would argue with me, but I think it's inescapable that the Tulsa area is far prettier than the OKC area. Tulsa itself is a prettier town too, with (in my humble opinion), more cultural activities, museums, better schools overall, nicer parks, a little more artiness to it without being terribly pretentious, etc. Tulsa is in the Ozark foothills so is a little more lush and hilly and green than OKC which is surrounded by flat yellow prairie and red clay.

And I mentioned surrounding states but actually the eastern part of Colorado is as flat and dull as most of Oklahoma. Kansas, too, isn't so hot if you are looking for scenery, and neither is the area of Texas bordering Oklahoma.

However, all three of those states (and the Missouri Ozarks) have much prettier areas than anything in Oklahoma. Arkansas is WAY more beautiful in most parts than Oklahoma, but it still has some ugly towns. And I think the redneck factor is even worse in Arkansas. However, Fayetteville is a pretty cool town with a decent university and Eureka Springs is downright gorgeous. A mountainside Victorian town right in the heart of the Ozarks. Tourist trappish, but a nice area.

As far as where my family hopes to relocate, I'll have to go where the best job is, but any state south or west of Oklahoma isn't even on the list of states under consideration.

We are interested in: upstate New York, Vermont, Northeastern Pennsylvania, the Bangor, Maine area, the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, and possibly Minnesota (I grew up there.)

We don't want to go West--we have been there before. Some great places but it's getting even more expensive and crowded near the coast and the inland West is soon going to have massive problems with water, etc. Large parts of Montana and Wyoming are sitting on top of a supervolcano, upper Nevada and the Dakotas are too remote and isolated and the water issue may be a growing concern.

So anyway, hopefully an area of the Northeast that isn't too pricey.

Wish us luck. I'm getting too old to move around too many more times!

Much of what you say is correct. Arkansas is much like the Grove area and Tahlequah area in that it is hilly and some of it is in the Ozark Mt. which are not much different than Tahlequah. Even the Ozarks in MO look alot like here.

But I do believe that Arkansas is more racist and may be more openly so. At least here when you hear racist remarks they use the word "blacks." I rather like rednecks and grew up with them in California. It is racism that bothers me and which could be what you mean when you speak of them being worse in Arkansas.

Eureka Springs is wonderful, but expensive as it Fayetteville, which I did not like at all. Jammie Eureka Springs is really the best small town (city?) I have ever seen. But it is also on the hippie side, but if you don't mind hippies I would check it out. It also has a lot of tourists and so the downtown does get congested at times.

[Mattie Jo]

Originally Posted by qhelly

I would like one white person to answer this question?
What is wrong with black people? What the hell exactly is the problem?

We all hear about racism.... but never the whys.

Of course it's easy to see what's wrong with racists -- stupid, boring, drab, stupid, boring, drab, hateful, stupid, boring, drab, have no hobbies, have no interests....

There is nothing wrong with black people. Period.

I would also not call racists what you just called them. I have found many to be very intelligent, full of interests, kind to other whites, etc. in spite of their racism, but I don't wish to hang out with them because of their racist attitudes.

Griffis wrote: "But I bet racism is worse in the deeper South than it is in OK."

Racism here is so, so mild than in the south that it is hardly noticeable. I have lived in the south, and we moved because we were sick of hearing the "N" word on a daily basis. We would not even check out Arkansas because of racism. We picked Oklahoma because one of my friends was from Tahlequah and said that they were not racist and yet i learned that some are, but as Griffis said, they are tolerant. I have been here for 2 years and have not once heard the "N" word. I have only heard "colored" once and it was not done in a negative way. We also moved here because a monk I knew had been sent to OKC and said that the people there were so wonderful that he wasn't as homesick as he was in CA. and last but not least, we chose to check out Tahlequah because Griffis said it was the best town. Well, I must say that I really love the old state capital as well, Guthrie. Now that is beautiful. But I still prefer this area due to the hills, rivers, and lakes. I just wish that Eureka Springs was in Grove area so it would not be a long trip to get there.

[autotech4dallas]

Originally Posted by Jammie

Going through the boards, I don't notice any Okie's looking for info to relocate to a different state. I've noticed that a few of you move to different Oklahoma cities, but does anyone from Ok ever relocate to a different state? The only posts I've ever seen is young people who went to college in OK being anxious to get done and go back to their state. Is everyone that happy living in OK that they don't desire to live elsewhere? I know there were a couple posts where everyone didn't seem totally content, but also commented on that there were a lot less desirable places to live. So what makes OK nice enough that the Okies stay there for life?

I am an Okie looking to relocate to Dallas, Texas to pursue my dream career automotive technician in my dream city. I generally post my information on the Dallas as well as the Texas forums and rarely get anybody responding to my post and it is bit frustrating because I would like to get more information on Dallas, as well as Texas. I probably should start post my information in the Oklahoma threads and maybe I will receive help. It seems like nobody cares about my posts on the Dallas forums (at lease that's how I feel ). I currently live in Tulsa, Oklahoma, attend school, work at a dealer, and working very hard to relocate to Dallas. I am extremely infatuated with Dallas and everytime I visit, I just fall in love and tell myself that someday, I will live out there. I want to cry everytime I have to leave to come back to Oklahoma. I am 21, young, and ambitious and will be ready by August of 2010 to make my dreams come true (By then, I will be graduating from school, and the day after graduating, I'm hittin state highway 75 to D-town, TX .

[colleeng47]

Synopsis, who is a moderator on this thread lives in the DFW area. He's originally from Oklahoma, where he hopes to relocate one day. I'm sure he'll be able to give you information on Dallas that would be helpful.

[autotech4dallas]

Thank you for the tip, colleeng47.

[Jammie]

Tuin, unfortunately according to stats, Tulsa and OKC do have high crime rates. It puzzles me, too but the stats are from different sites so they must be quite accurate. It'd be interesting to know why.

Auto, I wish you good luck in your move and your career. It sounds like you really love the Dallas area and Colleen is correct~Synopsis can give you a lot of pointers about the area. You may want to send him a direct message with specific questions. He's an old guy, but I'm sure he'd be willing to help. (younger then me, actually.) But I was curious~you felt that the people in that forum weren't very responsive and I've noticed that in a few areas of the forum. Do you find the majority of people who live there to be that way, too? Are they warm and friendly and do you feel comfortable and welcome there?

Griffis, I also found eastern OK to be very pretty. We didn't go to the OKC area and we've seen pics of a few things there that look very nice. But most people do prefer the eastern border. Grove was actually our favorite spot even above Tulsa, but Tulsa is a larger city then we're used to. We did get to see a lot of beautiful things in Tulsa, but it'd be a huge change to live there.

Jessaka, it's always good to see you. I'm so glad you ended up in a place that you love. We still haven't made a move and are both working at the same places. I guess every day that DH stays with his employer is just a few more dollars in his retirement fund. I would still like to get out of our brutal winters some day, but we just haven't found a place we're sure of. DH would move to Grove in a heartbeat, but employment would concern me. So would icestorms cause I know they aren't fun when you have to get out and drive to work. And with the way the economy and everything is, moving could be scary right now. Funny cause we were waiting for 2008 to get here because we'd be free to move, but now we're just not sure.

And as far as "What's wrong with Blacks"? Not a single thing. They're our fellow human beings who deserve to be respected and loved. Guess some people just need to have someone to hate and the gang mentality focuses on certain races. A lot of ignorance and evilness comes into play there.

[autotech4dallas]

Originally Posted by Jammie

Auto, I wish you good luck in your move and your career. It sounds like you really love the Dallas area and Colleen is correct~Synopsis can give you a lot of pointers about the area. You may want to send him a direct message with specific questions. He's an old guy, but I'm sure he'd be willing to help. (younger then me, actually.) But I was curious~you felt that the people in that forum weren't very responsive and I've noticed that in a few areas of the forum. Do you find the majority of people who live there to be that way, too? Are they warm and friendly and do you feel comfortable and welcome there?

Thank you, Jammie. I will definitely talk with Synopsis about Dallas if he does not mind. My deep infatuation in Dallas began in 2003 and I have visited Dallas ever since. The next times I will get to go will probably be near MLK day (my b-day) in January in 2009 and 2010 before the big relocation for me in August of 2010 (right after I graduate).

But yeah, the folks in the Dallas forums are like phasing me out and there are many people in my same situation (not from Oklahoma) who are relocation to Dallas as well. I have been very informative with my plan (job, apartment, etc.) and they do not seem to respond to me and it is a little upsetting.

To answer your question, I feel very warm and welcome every time I visit Dallas, since 2003. I don't want to say that the majority of the people are not nice because I have yet to encounter them. I have met some very generous people from Dallas and it feels like home to me.

There is no other place on this planet that I would want to visit, vacation, or relocate to other than Dallas. It is like an unconditional love, really.

[Annemieke Roell]

Originally Posted by Jammie

Going through the boards, I don't notice any Okie's looking for info to relocate to a different state. I've noticed that a few of you move to different Oklahoma cities, but does anyone from Ok ever relocate to a different state? The only posts I've ever seen is young people who went to college in OK being anxious to get done and go back to their state. Is everyone that happy living in OK that they don't desire to live elsewhere? I know there were a couple posts where everyone didn't seem totally content, but also commented on that there were a lot less desirable places to live. So what makes OK nice enough that the Okies stay there for life?

Who is Okie?

[Goodpasture]

Originally Posted by Jammie

....... So what makes OK nice enough that the Okies stay there for life?

That would be me and Redbird. He takes care of the southern half of the state, I take care of north of I-40.