Is OK okay for us? (Tulsa, Muskogee: houses, rent, job)

[Synopsis]

CG has been sick and had to go to the hospital colleen. He's doing better, just mending right now. It's nothing major and he will be back to his old antics soon!

[peggydavis]

I was wondering if CG had fallen off his roof or something. Hope you are doing better now, CG.

I have been in that domino effect of one business going out, taking 2 or 3 down, then 5 more go out because of them. Then it was time to move on.

[Goodpasture]

Originally Posted by TheComputerGuy

There are a few general locations we're looking at North East and North West.

Remember, the pretty areas don't have a lot of jobs, the populated areas have lots of jobs. By and large, I think OKC is more stable than eastern OK. as the seat of the state government, and home of Tinker AFB, it is almost a guaranteed economic base. building a small business on that is going to be relatively simple. You don't have sell to everyone, just enough to keep you busy.

Originally Posted by TheComputerGuy

I was originally leaning towards outside of Tulsa, but there seems
to be a lot more property and options outside of OKC.
You can't get a real feel from pictures.

Both areas are experiencing inflation. the crash in real estate has not happened here. Although there are a lot of foreclosures, the rate is far less than the national rate. Frankly, at this point in time, and for the foreseeable future, the Oklahoma economy is going to be healthy. Tulsa has oil and a diverse base. Stillwater has the university, Ponca has the refinery, Bartlesville has the refinery. Pryor is getting both Gatorade and Google, Muskogee is growing as an inland port, OKC has the government and lots of dynamic business along the I-35 and I-40 corridors. Just remember, you can hire carpenters for $15 an hour, and labor for $7

Originally Posted by TheComputerGuy

I'm also less sure now that I want to start my business all over again from scratch.
I may consider taking a straight job there, because:
A. Much less responsibility.
B. I might get a day off or vacation time. I haven't had either since 1998.
C. Benefits, Benefits, Benefits!
D. With the exception of having to deal with a few bad office personalities,
it will be 100 times easier than what I do now.
E. Lower, but STEADY paycheck.

But when ONE days pay as a business man equals a weeks pay as an employee, it makes a difference.

Originally Posted by TheComputerGuy

I'm surprised that Peggy mentioned Ponca.
That was the place my wife originally found,
but we later decided against it when I heard their
economy and commerce took a downturn.

Ponca is nice. I like it there.......Kaw Lake is close, but it is pretty much prairie

[colleeng47]

Originally Posted by Synopsis

CG has been sick and had to go to the hospital colleen. He's doing better, just mending right now. It's nothing major and he will be back to his old antics soon!

Oh, so sorry to hear that. Hope you're feeling better CG. Looking forward to sparring with you again.

[TheComputerGuy]

Originally Posted by peggydavis

I was wondering if CG had fallen off his roof or something. Hope you are doing better now, CG.

Thanks!
I came on here after I went on the roof last week and said I was alive and well.
Turns out I was less well than I thought, but it had nothing to do with falling of the roof.

But I'm doing a little better each day, and come H*ll or high water, I'm going to work Wednesday.

Originally Posted by peggydavis

I have been in that domino effect of one business going out, taking 2 or 3 down, then 5 more go out because of them. Then it was time to move on.

It started slowly here in 2005, but it's gone into overdrive this year.
It IS time to move on.... To OK!

[TheComputerGuy]

Originally Posted by Goodpasture

Remember, the pretty areas don't have a lot of jobs, the populated areas have lots of jobs.

Tell me about it... I live in a tourist / recreation area.

Originally Posted by Goodpasture

By and large, I think OKC is more stable than eastern OK. as the seat of the state government, and home of Tinker AFB, it is almost a guaranteed economic base. building a small business on that is going to be relatively simple. You don't have sell to everyone, just enough to keep you busy.

EXACTLY!
I was doing pretty well here for 6 years until a lot of my clients went out of business or had really bad years. If they don't do well, I don't do well.

One of the few big manufacturing places here just moved to Mexico...
That didn't help anything.

Originally Posted by Goodpasture

Both areas are experiencing inflation. the crash in real estate has not happened here. Although there are a lot of foreclosures, the rate is far less than the national rate. Frankly, at this point in time, and for the foreseeable future, the Oklahoma economy is going to be healthy. Tulsa has oil and a diverse base. Stillwater has the university, Ponca has the refinery, Bartlesville has the refinery. Pryor is getting both Gatorade and Google, Muskogee is growing as an inland port, OKC has the government and lots of dynamic business along the I-35 and I-40 corridors. Just remember, you can hire carpenters for $15 an hour, and labor for $7

Thanks, I appreciate the good info.

Originally Posted by Goodpasture

But when ONE days pay as a business man equals a weeks pay as an employee, it makes a difference.

Yes it does, and I LOVE that. The only reason I'm considering doing anything different is because things are so bad here, and over most of New England.
Also, I don't know that I want to spend a year or 2 getting established in a new area again. I have a good reputation here, but it takes time to get out there.

But I know I'd never really be happy being at some employer's mercy.
I don't mind working hard, and I like being independent.
(Except when the economy goes boom.)

Originally Posted by Goodpasture

Ponca is nice. I like it there.......Kaw Lake is close, but it is pretty much prairie

It looked very do-able at first, but everyone keeps telling me the place is going down, and people are leaving in droves.
That kind of scares me because where I'm at now, was up and coming when I got here, but it's been down and going over the last 2 years. I don't want to end up in that situation again.

Greg, thanks for the info and pep talk.
You sound a LOT like I am in the REAL World...
(As opposed to me in the Cyber World.)

[TheComputerGuy]

Originally Posted by colleeng47

Oh, so sorry to hear that. Hope you're feeling better CG. Looking forward to sparring with you again.

Thanks!
You were "sparring" with me?

[redbird4848]

Originally Posted by TheComputerGuy

Thanks!
You were "sparring" with me?

Yes she was! And she has great big red cyber boxing gloves! And them ain't kid gloves, so you better watch yourself!

[peggydavis]

I wouldn't count Ponca out. They have already taken their economic hits and are now in recovery. Ponca has so much infrastructure built with the oil money, I think it will attract some industry in the future. It is in the area that has more midwestern values.

[Goodpasture]

I did an appraisal on a beautiful piece of land east of Ponca City a couple of years ago. It was in the rolling hill area just west of Kaw Lake. It was two log houses, one a 2 bedroom one bath, the other a one bedroom one bath MIL cabin on about 40 acres. While we were standing there a flock of turkeys came up to the house to be fed. While the owner was tossing out corn chops for them, I asked how many turkeys he was raising and what breed were they, as they appeared to be a heritage turkey of some sort. When he told me they were wild turkey's he could have blown me over. He did say he does not allow hunting off his porch. North west and south of Ponca the land is prairie and is slightly rolling. Catch it at the right time and you can see the amber waves of grain that you can see on calendars about the wheat country.

I expect the Ponca area economy to be rebounding pretty solidly. (I am not projecting any 20-50 year suggestions, just what I expect to see in my life. I will let the kids worry about their future) Right now there is a working refinery owned by Conoco-Phillips. As we have a lack of refineries in this country, I don't expect it to go off line anytime soon. Further, as grain is being used for alternate energy and corn prices are shooting up due to the ethanol and beef production, I expect those "amber waves of grain" to be converted into cash. ....either as cattle feed, or ethanol or something. Small business appears to be healthy there. There are a couple of nice coffee shops, which would not be the case if people were destitute. Head Country Barbecue Sauce is growing and thriving. Oil in the area is coming back. All those wells that that produced 2 and 3 barrels of oil a day that were capped in the 80's when oil was $13 a barrel are being reworked now that oil is close to $100 a barrel. So there are LOTS of oil patch service companies that are coming back. Electric motor rebuilders, pump rebuilders, salt water separator manufacturers, etc.....all have more work than they can pray over.

Bartlesville is the same way, although there isn't as much prairie there so there isn't the grain. The majority of agriculture around Bartlesville is cattle.

Cushing doesn't have the refineries, but as the crossroad of America's oil pipelines the resurgence of oil has impacted this community as well. I was in Cushing a couple of weeks ago and had lunch at that Italian Restaurant on the east side of town. Excellent service, nice table cloths, decent wine list.....I had smoked salmon ravioli that was incredible. The lobster ravioli was just as good. This kind of restaurant doesn't survive unless the local economy is pretty strong.

In short, most of the surviving oil towns are doing pretty good, and you will find these oil towns beginning with Tulsa in the east and running west to the Texas panhandle.

East of Tulsa is Highway 69. It is the primary non-turnpike and the most direct route from Kansas City to Dallas. That corridor is going to be increasingly important and economically strong. Towns like Miami, Vinita, Pryor, Chouteau, Adair, Wagoner, Muskogee, Checotah, Eufala, McAlester, Atoka, Durant......all are going to benefit from the growth in importance of Highway 69.

Frankly, CG (and others looking at OK), I would find a place I liked, then I would locate the kind of work I can make a living at. I can't think of an area where there is not something going on. and when the people are buying and selling and are economically secure, there is opportunity to earn a living. You may not end up with a lot of cash, but spiritually you will be wealthy beyond your dreams.