[Convert 54]

Hey all, how about a thread with bits of Oklahoma History outside of the mainstream big stuff.

For example, is anyone aware that a battle between German troops and American troops during WWII occurred on American soil.?
Right here in Oklahoma in the town of Alva.
1500 German POW's took over the camp and American troops had to take it back.
Interesting little stuff.

How many of you knew that Britton was a separate community before they fell to the OKC bunch?

Give us some tidbits about your part of the state.

[Synopsis]

Interesting post. There was also a period in history where the Oklahoma National Guard and the Texas Rangers had a stand-off at the Red River over the border. It was resolved of course, but I'll have to dig up some material on that.

[okpondlady]

Only in Oklahoma: McIntosh County seat dispute turned deadly
By GENE CURTIS
8/27/2007

Two men were killed and a third was wounded when a dispute over the location of the McIntosh County seat erupted into gunfire in what newspapers of 1908 called the county seat war.

The argument between leaders of Checotah and Eufaula wasn't the only violent one that developed from the naming of county shires in the early days of Oklahoma, but it was the only one that involved killing.
A dispute between Jay and Grove for the right to be the Delaware County seat was won by Jay in an election in 1908, but the big issue then became which Jay -- New Jay or Old Jay. More than 500 shots were exchanged in 1912 between supporters of the two Jays.
The two communities were separated by a wide road with forests on each side. Buildings in either town could not be seen from the other. Rifle pits were dug on three sides of the courthouse in Old Jay for about 75 armed men who were said to be imbibing freely from liquor brought into town from nearby South West City, Mo.
Old Jay eventually won and the courthouse remains at Jay today, although fires destroyed it in 1913 and in 1941. Although not as bitter as the McIntosh and Delaware county arguments, heated disputes also

developed in Creek County between Sapulpa and Bristow; in Adair County between Stilwell and Westville; in Grant County between Pond Creek and Medford; in Wagoner County between Wagoner and Coweta; and in Seminole County between Seminole and Wewoka.

The issues didn't die immediately. Tecumseh unsuccessfully challenged Shawnee for the Pottawatomie County seat nearly 20 years later -- and even suggested in 1931 that it would secede from the county and create its own Petroleum County.
Other disputes apparently were not as intense, although community leaders considered being named a county seat important to the growth of their towns and cities.
It was apparent that the leaders of many counties weren't satisfied with the choices of county seats made by the Constitutional Convention that adjourned July 6, 1907, and the state constitution provided for elections to make changes. Before Gov. C.N. Haskell's term as the state's first governor ended in 1911, elections had taken place in 72 counties on petitions to change the county seats or county boundaries.
But no changes were made, Haskell was quoted as saying in a 1936 article in the Chronicles of Oklahoma, published three years after his death. He apparently forgot about Delaware County, where the seat was moved from Grove to one of the Jays.
Many of the squabbling counties had two elections because of charges of fraud in the first balloting. Several disputes eventually were settled in court.
Sapulpa, named the seat by the convention, was picked by Creek County voters in elections in 1908 and 1912. In the second election good feeling and harmony prevailed -- Sapulpa representatives at Bristow polling places on election day were treated to lunch by the Bristow committee, and the Bristow supporters in Sapulpa received similar treatment.
In a lawsuit after the first election, a referee found that "jointists" -- beer tavern operators -- in Kiefer favored Bristow as the county seat because it would put law enforcement farther away. Kiefer is 16 miles from Bristow but only four miles from Sapulpa.
However, Sapulpa supporters reportedly obtained the support of Kiefer jointists by threatening rigid enforcement unless the vote was cast for Sapulpa. (Jointist apparently was a common term used to describe such tavern keepers in the early 20th century.)
It didn't make much difference. All the Kiefer votes were thrown out.
The McIntosh County issue turned deadly after Checotah won a May 1908 election and a group of Checotah residents went to Eufaula on June 7, 1908, in an attempt to bodily move the county records.
During the confrontation, Eufaula City Marshal F.M. Woods and General Dunlap, a guard at the temporary courthouse, were killed and Deputy Sheriff Joe Parmenter of Checotah was wounded. Court Clerk Ed Julian, also of Checotah, was charged with murder for shooting Dunlap.
The dispute between Checotah and Eufaula began long before the Constitutional Convention. The convention's county seat committee recommended Checotah. But on the last day of the convention, W.C. Leidtke of Eufaula made an eloquent appeal and delegates ignored the committee's suggestion, choosing Eufaula.
Checotah leaders immediately sought an election to change the county seat. Voters favored Checotah over Eufaula and a third contender, Stidham, leading to the attempt to take the records.
After Eufaula leaders charged fraud, a new election was ordered, and Eufaula won. Checotah alleged that Eufaula used a big slush fund to buy votes in the second election. At a hearing in Muskogee, a Eufaula undertaker was asked how much he had contributed to the "slush fund."
"I already have contributed two coffins and have not been paid a damn cent," he replied.

Photograph research by Rachele Vaughan

Tulsa World: Oklahoma Centennial Stories

[Choctaw2]

This is a 27 minute video about Oklahoma Outlaws and lawmen.

Stateline: Dead or alive. Very interesting to me since some of my family were both outlaws and lawmen.

Stateline: Dead or Alive

[peggydavis]

Good post, OKC pond lady.

This is a summary of some information in the Chronicles of Oklahoma.

South of Holdenville on the Little River near its junction with the Canadian, a trading post, known as Edwards' Store or Edwards' Settlement, operated trading with Comanche, Kickapoo, Shawnee, Delaware and other Indians. The trail leading to Edwards' Settlement crossed the Red River near Ryan, OK, and went through what is now Jefferson, Carter, Murray, and Pontotoc Counties.

In looking at maps, it looks like the trail would have gone from Edwards' store through Allen and Ada to Roff, generally the route of Highway 1. Then along what is now the Chickasw turnpike to Sulphur. It would have continued in a southwest direction to Ryan.

Jesse Chisolm, famous scout, was married to Edwards' daughter and lived there. The store traded for furs and hides and later also traded human beings. In 1834 General Leavenworth cut a road from Fort Gibson and established Old Fort Holmes, located near Edwards' Settlement. Edwards' Settlement became a clearinghouse for prisoners captured in Texas. From 1836 to 1843 the Comanches captured many white prisoners in Texas. Some they kept, like Cynthia Ann Parker, who was the mother of Quanah Parker, and some they traded either at the Red River trading post or Edwards' Settlement. The prisoners were sold to other Indians or traders, who would transport them to Fort Gibson where they could collect ransoms if offered.

In 1839, two young black boys who were slaves were captured in the Republic of Texas and sold to Mr. Edwards and Jesse Chisholm. Their owner traced them to the Edwards' post. While the slave owner, a Mr. Robertson, was at the Edwards' Settlement he dared not tell anyone he was from Texas, because a large band of Cherokees was camped there who had just been driven out of Texas and many members of their tribe had been killed. The slave owner reported the location of his stolen slaves to the Texas government. This became the subject of cabinet conferences in the U.S. government. President Harrison refused to recognize the right of Texas to demand the slaves' return, but in 1844 when Tyler became President, he ordered the young men returned to their owner.

[_redbird_]

I believe the prison in Lexington, OK, used to be the site of a POW camp. Inmates used to find spent shells there.

[briansgi]

If you want to understand the dark side of Oklahoma I strongly suggest you pick up The Burning, a book detailing the worst race riot in the history of the US, right here in our own backyard of Tulsa! I feel it's a must read, especially for residents in/around Tulsa. The details of this horrific act are tough to comprehend!!

[peggydavis]

You are right Brian. Everyone should read about the Tulsa riot. It is hard to believe that people did the things described, but something like that can always happen if people let their prejudices and emotions take over. We like to think that we are better today.

It is important I think to examine the past so we can avoid making the same mistakes in the future. Here is a link to a Wikipedia article that has about the same information as most articles. What really happened is still disputed today.

Tulsa Race Riot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[TheComputerGuy]

This could be a good thread... Being a (soon to be former) Yankee, I had NO idea about those things... Although I have read about the race riot of 1921...
(While I don't have a LOT of hope for humanity, I certainly hope we've learned a LOT since then.)

I also never heard about the 1,500 German prisoners taking over... Sounds like a reverse Stalag 13.

I hope this thread lasts a while... I know I could use the education...
And I also want to know about all the Native American history that went down in OK...
(Even if a lot of it is pretty embarrassing to our white ancestors.)

I came to the OK forum for educational purposes...
I know all about New England... But I'm outta there ASAP.

Thanks,

M.

[peggydavis]

Right now I am reading The Road to Disappearance by Angie Debo. I would recommend anything she wrote to learn about Native American history. The book was written in 1941 when the Creek Muscogee Nation looked like it was about to disappear. Of course, they did not. It is really an amazing story of survival that they have managed to preserve much of their language and traditions.

Since it sounds like you will probably be living in the Cherokee Nation, you might want to read about them first.