[karibear]

As I recall, Missouri never attempted to secede because there were so many rabid southerners and northerners within the state, and they just couldn't agree on anything. But the Dred Scott case was begun in St Louis, and it was one of the major dividing points that led to the Civil War. Even so, to this day [at least to the point where I moved from MO], there are towns in the state that simply don't recognize 'Yankee' holidays. I remember going to one where half the town celebrated Memorial Day one week, and the other half of the town celebrated Memorable Day a week later. There's also the remains of a Civil War fort there, Fort Pilot Knob. It's more of a large square berm than anything, and I still can't imagine what it must have been like for the soldiers inside it. Supposedly they ended up shooting their horses so the bodies would provide even more protection, as pitiful as that was.

[HeatherDawn]

American Journeys - Oklahoma City - Reaping the Benefits of the New Oil Boom - NYTimes.com

This writer from the NY Times decided it was western...

[karibear]

Originally Posted by HeatherDawn

American Journeys - Oklahoma City - Reaping the Benefits of the New Oil Boom - NYTimes.com

This writer from the NY Times decided it was western...

From NY, Ohio would be western.

[HeatherDawn]

I don't think so.

[karibear]

All the years I lived in Alaska, we frequently referred to the 48 contiguous states as 'south' - as in "I'm going south for Christmas" - which would probably surprise a lot of people in Montana, Minnesota, and Michigan!

[TXSooner]

Originally Posted by eddie gein

I had an interesting conversation with a retired archeologist from the university of Oklahoma once. He had left a good job at Ohio State to come to OU in the 1950's.

I asked him why he came to Oklahoma. He told me that he studied pre columbian Native American culture and the reason he came to Oklahoma was that Oklahoma was the crossroads of Native American cultures (even before the forced removal of the tribes to the area).

He said you could start at Norman and go in any direction (in Oklahoma) and the precolumbian cultures were similar to the cultures in that particular direction.

For instance. Going Southeast in Oklahoma the culture resembled those cultures of the SE USA. Going Southwest, the culture resembled those of west Texas and New Mexico. Northwest the culture resembled the great plains. Northeast was more similar to the tribes of the midwest.

I don't think it is that much different today. Southeast Oklahoma is the south. SW Oklahoma is the southern plains. NE Oklahoma is more midwestern and NW Oklahoma is more like the great plains. I think the terrain, the weather and even the culture of the people of the state (to a lesser extent) bear this out.

I went to OU from 1996 to 1999 and the state seemed pretty diverse, and your observation seems accurate as far as native american cultures go.

The state seemed to embrace cowboy culture as much as Texas, but I just have to tell a story here. I grew up in Texas but went to OU for college. I went to a movie theatre in Norman to watch Friday Night Lights when it came out. It is a movie about Texas high school football and how many small Texas towns take it very seriously. Well, in the opening credits, the screen showed a Texas flag waving on a flagpole in the wind in the dawn, and everyone in the audience began to boo! I was suprised! I knew that the OU-TX rivalry was big, but I didn't know it went as far as not liking the state of Texas! LOL! I also found that the ironic part about the whole thing was that if there were any state that borders Texas that is most like Texas, it would be Oklahoma. (As opposed to NM, AK, or LA).

[azriverfan.]

Oklahoma is most definitely southern. Yes, it may not be as southern as the deep south or confederate states but it has much more in common with the south than the west. When I think of the west, I think of Arizona, Colorado, Nevada, Wyoming and even New Mexico. I think Oklahoma has western qualities to it but again, it has more southern traits than western traits by far. For one thing, it's a Bible Belt state and the Bible Belt is associated with the south. New Mexico and Kansas for example are not part of the Bible Belt. The majority of Oklahoma residents are Southern Baptist. Oral Roberts University is in Tulsa and Oklahoma Baptist is in Shawnee. Politically, it's very aligned with the South as it is very Republican and McCain won by a landslide in Oklahoma. Oklahoma is very socially conservative as the state frowns upon abortion, stem cell research and gay marriage rights. In addition, And just to show how conservative Oklahoma is, it is one of the few states that voted for Bob Dole in the 1996 Presidential election.

In addition, it has strong ties to Country Music which is affiliated with the south. Several country music stars also hail from Oklahoma including Garth Brooks, Reba McEntire, Carrie Underwood, Toby Keith and Vince Gill. Furthermore, the national Cowboy hall of fame is located in OKC and the state has a strong cowboy and western heritage much like Texas.

Oklahoma also sided with the confederacy during the civil war when it was referred to as Indian territory. So whoever argued that Oklahoma wasn't a southern state because it wasn't a part of the confederacy wasn't really stating all the facts.

And yes, there is a clear twang. Even people in Oklahoma who think they don't have accents, have one although it is definitely more subtle than someone from the deep southern states. However, there is a big difference in accents in someone from Kansas City vs Tulsa for example. People in Kansas don't have twangs but people in Oklahoma clearly do. For example, Oklahomans still pronounce lawyers as LAW yurs instead of LOY yurs. They also never pronounce 'ing', for example, they say "We were runin those errands or We were fixin to run those errands. And I still hear the term Y'all used all of the time instead of All of you. And I'm referring to the OKC and Tulsa crowd. Listen to Gary England and Dean Blevins speak, they have classic Oklahoma drawls which is almost Midwestern but with a little country thrown in.

In terms of culture, shall I remind you there is a thread asking where the best chicken fried steak in the state was located. Chicken fried steak is most definitely southern as is white gravy which is plentiful in Oklahoma. In the north, they serve brown gravy but the south is known for its white gravy. In addition, fried green tomatoes and fried okra, which are most definitely southern foods, are popular menu items in Oklahoma. Also, in Oklahoma they call any type of soda coke whether that is coca cola, pepsi or dr. pepper. In the midwest, they call it pop. And in the west, we distinguish between Pepsi and Coke.

The Native American culture is overstated particularly in OKC and Tulsa. You can walk around certain parts of Oklahoma and not see any Native Americans because the full blooded "Indians' are segregated on the reservations and the others are mixed and appear like whites. You can't even tell that someone is 1/4 Cherokee in Oklahoma unless they told you. I certainly didn't feel like there was a unique Native American culture that set itself apart in Oklahoma the way Hispanics are in Arizona and California. It just seems like the Native American influence is more or less token. Yeah, they name everything after Native Americans but that's about as far as it goes.

Lastly, the United States Census bureau has identified Oklahoma as part of the southern division among the 4 divisons in the United States. It was not included in the west or midwest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ce..._Divisions.PNG

In terms of diversity and borders, you can make that argument for any state. I live in Arizona but am originally from California. Western AZ feels like Cali. Eastern AZ feels like New Mexico. Southern Arizona feels like Mexico and Northern Arizona feels like conservative Utah. The same applies to states like Pennsylvania in which Philly feels like a NE city whereas Pittsburgh feels like an upper midwest city. Tallahassee Florida most definitely is southern. Miami is Cuban and Orlando and Tampa feel like midwestern states. However in terms of general statements, I wouldn't argue that Florida is a southern state. Likewise, it makes no sense to argue that Oklahoma is a western state when it is predominantly southern in culture.

[Synopsis]

Originally Posted by TXSooner

I also found that the ironic part about the whole thing was that if there were any state that borders Texas that is most like Texas, it would be Oklahoma. (As opposed to NM, AK, or LA).

True, the two states are very similar, especially North Texas and the Texas Panhandle. I think the rivalry is more like a sibling rivalry than anything.

[Fairfielder]

Man, there was a lot of homework done for this topic.

Did anyone suggest that OK be called "WEST-SOUTHERN"? That sounds like a fair compromise.

[Goodpasture]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

.......

The Native American culture is overstated particularly in OKC and Tulsa. You can walk around certain parts of Oklahoma and not see any Native Americans because the full blooded "Indians' are segregated on the reservations and the others are mixed and appear like whites. You can't even tell that someone is 1/4 Cherokee in Oklahoma unless they told you. I certainly didn't feel like there was a unique Native American culture that set itself apart in Oklahoma the way Hispanics are in Arizona and California. It just seems like the Native American influence is more or less token. Yeah, they name everything after Native Americans but that's about as far as it goes......

First of all, there are no reservations in Oklahoma. The reason we are like whites is because we are integrated........My accountant is Choctaw. My attorney is Sac and Fox. One of my favorite friends is Kiowa. My son is Cherokee. My grandmother was Cherokee. And most the NA friends of mine quit token when they were in High School............