[karibear]

Originally Posted by Goodpasture

First of all, there are no reservations in Oklahoma. The reason we are like whites is because we are integrated........My accountant is Choctaw. My attorney is Sac and Fox. One of my favorite friends is Kiowa. My son is Cherokee. My grandmother was Cherokee. And most the NA friends of mine quit token when they were in High School............

Maybe he just doesn't know what he's seeing when he sees it. There are plenty where I am - but I've yet to see anyone wearing a sign that says "I AM..." I've seen plenty of tourists in AK who thought the Aleuts were whites, and the Filipinos were Eskimos. *shrug*

[_redbird_]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

The Native American culture is overstated particularly in OKC and Tulsa. You can walk around certain parts of Oklahoma and not see any Native Americans because the full blooded "Indians' are segregated on the reservations and the others are mixed and appear like whites.

What?! Segregated? LOL. Funnee. Sounds like a conversation I had in KS at KSU when a fellow student asked me what kind of food do we Indians eat on the reservation.

*knock, knock*
Hellooo, this isn't Dances With History Books, this is 2009. The "full bloods" are not segregated anymore, and we are allowed to buy whiskey and vote too! Excuse me, while I eat these raw kidneys.

You can walk around certain parts of OKC and Tulsa and not see any white folks either, but that doesn't make the white culture overstated.

OK is NOT the midwest, southern or western, or even South Central! It is E) None of the above. Thank your blue-eyed blond haired God for that too!

[TexasReb]

I can't add much to what some of the others have said as to the reasons that Oklahoma is mostly a Southern state.

As an aside here, if one takes its "State Meal" then it would even be part of the Deep South! LOL

I always thought of Oklahoma in the same general sense I do West Virginia. That is, a border state, certainly, but much more Southern than not. Both, when it comes to regional affiliation, belong with the South.

The point of comparrison in this realm is not with Mississippi...or even Arkansas and Texas. But as opposed to a Missouri, Maryland or Delaware in the "South" realm. As is with New Mexico and Arizona in the "Southwest" aspect. The "Sooners" were by and large Southerners, and it is that culture which gets the nod.

Midwest? Of course, this is only personal experience, but I have often travelled thru Oklahoma on the way to Kansas (because that is where my kids live). Yes, at a point north of OKCity, it changes a bit into the "Midwest." A transition zone, for sure, but not in the way that negates it identification as pretty much Southern at large.

For example, most Oklahomans identify with the South, wheras most Kansans identify with the Midwest. The difference is truly contrasting.

Most Oklahomans use "coke" as the generic name for a soft drink. Say "Y'all" as the second person plural pronoun. And have a Confederate history. All in all, there is a tremedous cultural difference when one crosses the Oklahoma/Kansas line. Even taking into account the fading out...most of all how the natives consider themselves...all important factors mark Oklahoma as Southern. Especially when the alternative is Midwest or Far West.

[TXSooner]

Originally Posted by TexasReb

I can't add much to what some of the others have said as to the reasons that Oklahoma is mostly a Southern state.

As an aside here, if one takes its "State Meal" then it would even be part of the Deep South! LOL

I always thought of Oklahoma in the same general sense I do West Virginia. That is, a border state, certainly, but much more Southern than not. Both, when it comes to regional affiliation, belong with the South.

The point of comparrison in this realm is not with Mississippi...or even Arkansas and Texas. But as opposed to a Missouri, Maryland or Delaware in the "South" realm. As is with New Mexico and Arizona in the "Southwest" aspect. The "Sooners" were by and large Southerners, and it is that culture which gets the nod.

Midwest? Of course, this is only personal experience, but I have often travelled thru Oklahoma on the way to Kansas (because that is where my kids live). Yes, at a point north of OKCity, it changes a bit into the "Midwest." A transition zone, for sure, but not in the way that negates it identification as pretty much Southern at large.

For example, most Oklahomans identify with the South, wheras most Kansans identify with the Midwest. The difference is truly contrasting.

Most Oklahomas use "coke" as the generic name for a soft drink. Say "Y'all" as the second person plural pronoun. And have a Confederate history. All in all, there is a tremedous cultural difference when one crosses the Oklahoma/Kansas line. Even taking into account the fading out...most of all how the natives consider themselves...

I find your comparison b/w Oklahoma and Kansas interesting, because when I lived in Norman, I used to visit my best friend in Winfield, KS all the time.

I noticed that small town Kansas had almost no southern "twang" accent or influence whatsoever. I was somewhat suprised to note that the locals spoke what I understand to be "common" American english with an absence of any identifying characteristics of any region.

I also saw that the "cowboy" culture there was pretty much nonexistant in comparison to OK. Farming was prevalent, and I somewhat admired the contrast. I respected their easy way of life! The locals would most definitaly define themselves as Midwest (modern day midwest). I believe that they used the word "soda" to define a general soft-drink, versus "Coke."

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by TXSooner

I believe that they used the word "soda" to define a general soft-drink, versus "Coke."

Here is "neat" little map of dialect survey on that one.

http://popvssoda.com:2998/countystats/total-county.html

[TXSooner]

That map's incredible! I guess I was wrong, in KS they use "POP" a majority of the time.

An intersting sidenote, even though I grew up in Houston, I still used the word "soda." I know why now. My parents grew up in St. Louis, MO, and according to your map, they use "soda." No wonder I use the same term!

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by txsooner

that map's incredible! I guess i was wrong, in ks they use "pop" a majority of the time.

An intersting sidenote, even though i grew up in houston, i still used the word "soda." i know why now. My parents grew up in st. Louis, mo, and according to your map, they use "soda." no wonder i use the same term!

But I bet you use "y'all" as opposed to ""you guys"! Which in itself is a certain indicator of "Southerness"!

[Goodpasture]

Originally Posted by TexasReb

But I bet you use "y'all" as opposed to ""you guys"! Which in itself is a certain indicator of "Southerness"!

So why am I so frequently irritated when some teen aged waitress or clerk calls this 60 year old male "you guys"?

[colleeng47]

I would say most of you suffered through OK history in school. When I took NJ history back in the day, they told us NJ was a "Mid-Atlantic" state. What does OK history/geography say Oklahoma is?

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by Goodpasture

So why am I so frequently irritated when some teen aged waitress or clerk calls this 60 year old male "you guys"?

LOL Probably for the same I reason I am (except I am "only" 51 ).

But seriously, The University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee once did a dialect survey across the US (Dr. Bert Vaux, Associate Professor of Linguistics, Harvard University). One of the questions was: What word(s) do you use to address a group of two or more people?”

The choices -- among others -- included "yall" "you all" and "you guys". There was an extremely strong correlation between states of the South and usage of the word "y’all." No state outside the U.S. Census Bureau South (defined as the 11 Old Confederate States plus Kentucky, Oklahoma, Maryland, West Virginia and Delaware) indicated more than 8% or so of residents report using the word “y’all”. However, it was used by a majority or plurality in most of the Southern U.S. (as defined above).

I don't have -- right off hand -- all the 50 states rankings, but here is a sampling:

Common use of "y'all: Mississippi – 85.47% Louisiana – 79.30% Texas – 73.09% Alabama – 72.81% South Carolina – 71.83% Georgia – 71.15% Arkansas – 69.17% North Carolina – 66.13% Tennessee – 62.15% Oklahoma – 46.35% Virginia – 44.03% Florida – 41.49% Kentucky – 39.00% West Virginia – 28.35% Delaware – 20.93% Maryland – 20.52% Missouri – 13.44%

Now, if one adds "you all" into the equastion, some of the percentages would be much higher as opposed to "you guys"...especially (as I recall) for Oklahoma, Kentucky and West Virginia.

This is another reason I always thought of Oklahoma as being mostly Southern in culture.