[Goodpasture]

I don't get this "this looks like the real southwest and this doesn't" nonsense. What does "the real southwest" look like?

Got some time on your hands? Go spend a month in the "real southwest," and let me offer some places to look visit.....then tell me which is the real one. Start off with the Inn of the Mountain Gods in Ruidosa, NM. Then go spend some time in Midland/Odessa. Follow that with a visit to Shiprock. Then go to horseback to the top of Wheeler. Then south to El Paso. Then spend a bit of time on a ranch over in Guthrie, TX. Lets not even include the diversity of Arizona, the Big Bend in Texas, the Guadalupes in NM, or Carlsbad Caverns.

Notice I didn't include any of Oklahoma? That is because the geographic characteristics found in the above list can, with slight modifications, all be found in Oklahoma........all of those and more..........

The only thing EVERY southwestern town and area has in common is the diversity. About the only characteristic you can find that is common among them all is that Stetson hats, Tony Lama boots, and Wrangler jeans are considered appropriate wear, anywhere, and pick up trucks are considered family cars. Oh yeah, you will also find, for the most part, people willing to stop and help as well as a streak of independence as wide as the western sky.

[Bass&Catfish2008]

For the most part this is pretty good. My Dad is from Pawhuska and I'm sure he would never say he is midwestern....also the culture there is not midwestern. If you're strickly going by geography, okay...maybe. Really none of the counties in OK are truly midwestern culturally given dialect, general activies, food, religious practices, etc. Just my opinion. I really think Oklahoma is properly placed (as wikipedia and every demographic info site does) placed in the Southwest or in the West South Central states. Designating OK this way propably represents the culture much better to people that have never been here before.

Originally Posted by Nameless

Sorry but I just have to chime in here. Oklahoma is a huge state, Idabel is distinctly southern in every way possible (geographically, culturally, etc, etc) and Guymon is as far away from the south as you can get. To call Oklahoma in the South, Midwest or Southwest, all by itself, is simply stupid.

But...if you're asking me. Here is how I would define our area.



And anyone who says that the urban corridor isn't a transition zone is lying to themselves and needs to see the state a bit more.

[Nameless]

Originally Posted by Goodpasture

I don't get this "this looks like the real southwest and this doesn't" nonsense. What does "the real southwest" look like?

Got some time on your hands? Go spend a month in the "real southwest," and let me offer some places to look visit.....then tell me which is the real one. Start off with the Inn of the Mountain Gods in Ruidosa, NM. Then go spend some time in Midland/Odessa. Follow that with a visit to Shiprock. Then go to horseback to the top of Wheeler. Then south to El Paso. Then spend a bit of time on a ranch over in Guthrie, TX. Lets not even include the diversity of Arizona, the Big Bend in Texas, the Guadalupes in NM, or Carlsbad Caverns.

Notice I didn't include any of Oklahoma? That is because the geographic characteristics found in the above list can, with slight modifications, all be found in Oklahoma........all of those and more..........

The only thing EVERY southwestern town and area has in common is the diversity. About the only characteristic you can find that is common among them all is that Stetson hats, Tony Lama boots, and Wrangler jeans are considered appropriate wear, anywhere, and pick up trucks are considered family cars. Oh yeah, you will also find, for the most part, people willing to stop and help as well as a streak of independence as wide as the western sky.

And who are you to tell me to go to the Southwest. Excuse me but I've seen plenty of the Southwest including a vacation in Arizona, New Mexico and Colorado for 2 weeks last Summer. And in 3 days I will be leaving for El Paso for a week. I used to have family who lived an hour north of there in New Mexico. So don't be telling me I've never seen the Southwest when I have.

Have you been to the Southeast, i.e. Georgia? I was there last summer as well and no where west of I-35 resembles Georgia culturally or geographically at all.

I spent over 2 hours this afternoon driving around the countryside, mostly in Kingfisher county. If it's rolling farmland and dirt roads don't represent the Midwest than I don't know what does. If this were 80 miles north just on the other side of the border there is no debate. It pisses me off how in Southern Kansas no one questions you when you place the region geographically. But when someone wants to talk about Central or even Northern Oklahoma, all hell breaks loose.

It's a border, it doesn't have to be a define cut off between regions. Because it's not. Regions drift into other regions just like Summer drifts into Autumn here in Oklahoma.

[OkieWolf]

Originally Posted by Nameless

And who are you to tell me to go to the Southwest. Excuse me but I've seen plenty of the Southwest including a vacation in Arizona, New Mexico and Colorado for 2 weeks last Summer. And in 3 days I will be leaving for El Paso for a week. I used to have family who lived an hour north of there in New Mexico. So don't be telling me I've never seen the Southwest when I have.

Have you been to the Southeast, i.e. Georgia? I was there last summer as well and no where west of I-35 resembles Georgia culturally or geographically at all.

I spent over 2 hours this afternoon driving around the countryside, mostly in Kingfisher county. If it's rolling farmland and dirt roads don't represent the Midwest than I don't know what does. If this were 80 miles north just on the other side of the border there is no debate. It pisses me off how in Southern Kansas no one questions you when you place the region geographically. But when someone wants to talk about Central or even Northern Oklahoma, all hell breaks loose.

It's a border, it doesn't have to be a define cut off between regions. Because it's not. Regions drift into other regions just like Summer drifts into Autumn here in Oklahoma.

Who cares ?
Oklahoma is unique no matter what you want to call it.
Just curious but how many of you that are pissing and moaning about what to call where you are in Oklahoma were born and bred here ?

[Synopsis]

Oklahoma is unique, just like the people who live there. And I like that; like it VERY much.

[Nameless]

Originally Posted by OkieWolf

Who cares ?
Oklahoma is unique no matter what you want to call it.
Just curious but how many of you that are pissing and moaning about what to call where you are in Oklahoma were born and bred here ?

I am done with this thread. My original purpose of creating that map was to state that Oklahoma is a part of many regions. But then people come in and complain about me disagreeing with what to call a few select counties. Then you come back later and say it doesn't matter. And damn right I was born and bred here, only live 7 miles from the hospital I was born in, so I like to think my credibility should be reliable.

[OkieWolf]

Originally Posted by Nameless

I am done with this thread. My original purpose of creating that map was to state that Oklahoma is a part of many regions. But then people come in and complain about me disagreeing with what to call a few select counties. Then you come back later and say it doesn't matter. And damn right I was born and bred here, only live 7 miles from the hospital I was born in, so I like to think my credibility should be reliable.

Well then alright. I'm glad to hear you are a true Oklahoman. My issue is that to often outsiders want to complain about this or that regarding Oklahoma. I didn't mean any disrespect. I just get tired of people constantly arguing about what Oklahoma is or isn't when, in reality, they have no idea themselves.

[mkfarnam]

Originally Posted by OkieWolf

Well then alright. I'm glad to hear you are a true Oklahoman. My issue is that to often outsiders want to complain about this or that regarding Oklahoma. I didn't mean any disrespect. I just get tired of people constantly arguing about what Oklahoma is or isn't when,

Just like politics

[Goodpasture]

Originally Posted by Nameless

And who are you to tell me to go to the Southwest. Excuse me but I've seen plenty of the Southwest including a vacation in Arizona, New Mexico and Colorado for 2 weeks last Summer. And in 3 days I will be leaving for El Paso for a week. I used to have family who lived an hour north of there in New Mexico. So don't be telling me I've never seen the Southwest when I have.

wow, guess you have been around, eh? Seen it all............

Originally Posted by Nameless

Have you been to the Southeast, i.e. Georgia?

Not since I sold my construction company in Atlanta, and haven't been to South Carolina since I was in the navy excep[t when I was working on building the PTL Club. I have visited my cousins in North Carolina periodically over the past 60 years, though.....does that count?

Originally Posted by Nameless

I was there last summer as well and no where west of I-35 resembles Georgia culturally or geographically at all.

Your point is? Actually the red clay dirt west of I-35 resembles the red clay in Georgia. Similar rolling hills too.

Originally Posted by Nameless

I spent over 2 hours this afternoon driving around the countryside, mostly in Kingfisher county. If it's rolling farmland and dirt roads don't represent the Midwest than I don't know what does.

Most of the midwest tends to grow corn. The greatest number of farmers in Iowa, Illinois, Wisconsin, Indiana, and Ohio whose land I was appraising for expropriation for pipelines were corn farmers and dairy farmers. There is a lot of truck gardening and some other grains, but I doubt you will find a super abundance of wheat there. Kingfisher County is predominately wheat country. At least that is what my granddad, my uncles and my cousins grow. They've started a lot of hog production up around Hennessy and up into Garfield County, but frankly, I don't thiink it resembles the Mid-West at all. That rattlesnake hunt area around Okeene and down around the canyons of Roman Nose are a lot more like the areas around Arabella, Lincoln, Hondo and the north side of Capitan Mountain in New Mexico.

Originally Posted by Nameless

If this were 80 miles north just on the other side of the border there is no debate.

You mean the line where the Land Rush folks stood? My great grandfather was there, and couldn't hardly stand it.....he told me he was from Missouri and it sure rankled him to have to hang out in Yankee territory just to get a little land......so 80 miles north there is a pretty big difference in attitudes....at least among those of us whose roots are in Oklahoma for several generations. BTW, he settled about 8 miles west of Hennessey (in Kingfisher County) near the town of Lacey. Street Atlas can locate it for you. Great Grandpa died shortly after I was born in Enid.....in Garfield County.

Originally Posted by Nameless

It pisses me off how in Southern Kansas no one questions you when you place the region geographically.

That is because it is Kansas....they were proud to be yankees. Oklahoma is Oklahoma.

Originally Posted by Nameless

But when someone wants to talk about Central or even Northern Oklahoma, all hell breaks loose.

Only hell being raised and only one being pissed off appears to be you.....everyone else is willing to agree to disagree.

Originally Posted by Nameless

It's a border, it doesn't have to be a define cut off between regions. Because it's not. Regions drift into other regions just like Summer drifts into Autumn here in Oklahoma.

Now you are acting all poetic.....pretty cool........

[colleeng47]

Originally Posted by Nameless

I am done with this thread. My original purpose of creating that map was to state that Oklahoma is a part of many regions. But then people come in and complain about me disagreeing with what to call a few select counties. Then you come back later and say it doesn't matter. And damn right I was born and bred here, only live 7 miles from the hospital I was born in, so I like to think my credibility should be reliable.

I like your map, Nameless.