[karibear]

Originally Posted by HeatherDawn

Some people do train animals by hitting them, and, quite effectively. Take a horse for instance. It bites me and I whack it in the head. Know why? Because that's what the leader in a herd would do. It's something they understand.

Anyway, children ARE different than animals so I don't think we can compare apples and oranges here.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

Your example of a horse biting - I would assume that the horse already knows he's not supposed to bite, so that isn't so much training as it is showing that misbehaving is going to have negative consequences. But a horse can also learn quickly that good behavior gets rewarded - like when every other horse gets a bit of apple or carrot, and he doesn't. He'll learn very fast that if he wants some too, he'll have to behave, and behaving well can quickly turn into a new habit.

But I was using 'training' as a term for teaching the basics of how to get along from the beginning. You reward good behavior as much as possible, while ignoring bad behavior as much as possible. When it's possible, you cue the bad behavior [like barking], then they learn to do it on command and it becomes a trick, not a nuisance. Or housebreaking dogs - you teach them to go on command, and praise them for going in the right place. Once in awhile you come across a behavior that can't be cued or extinguished, then you take steps to fix it. I had one dog who was a non-stop around the clock barker, so I had her de-barked [by a vet, it is NOT a DIY thing, no matter what puppy millers think], and she spent a lot of happy years whispering instead of annoying the whole neighborhood with her deep baritone voice that easily carried a mile. One of the main reasons so many people and organizations are so critical of dog sled races like the Iditarod and the Iron Dog is that they are convinced somehow that the mushers beat the dogs to make them go faster. It's exactly the opposite - if you beat a dog that's in harness, it's going to stop and roll over, it's not going to run. The mushers are along primarily to take care of the dogs and keep them from running themselves to death. Good sled dogs have that 'gotta run' gene to the point where some of them will actually ignore a female in heat in favor of running.

As for children - one of my uncles was beaten regularly both at school and at home because he didn't seem to be 'applying' himself to learning. He was dyslexic, and there is absolutely no way any number of beatings could change that. All he learned was how to hate school and he quit when he finally got through the 8th grade.

[HeatherDawn]

Obviously, I would never suggest spanking is the right course of action for every child.

[karibear]

Originally Posted by HeatherDawn

Obviously, I would never suggest spanking is the right course of action for every child.

I'm biased. I got so many that I never had a clue what they were for, and I swore I'd never do that to a child of mine. Someone else said they thought the current lack of discipline was more due to both parents working and feeling guilty about it, and tolerating unacceptable behavior. But some of the worst brats I've ever seen were kids with stay at home mothers, and the mothers were equally clueless about what was or wasn't acceptable behavior. I'd agree that some of those kids could have done with a swat or so, there is no excuse for a 10 year old having a temper tantrum in a store or restaurant. My kids learned very quickly that the first sign of whining - forget having a tantrum - meant the shopping trip was over and we were going home.

One thing I found really sad: when my kids were 5 and 7, I took them on a road trip from AK to western NY state and back again. All along the way whevener we stopped in a restaurant, people would come up to me and tell me how gratifying it was to see children who didn't run around trying to snatch things from other diners, didn't scream and make a mess of the table, and said 'please' and 'thank you' to the waitress. What was sad about it was that obviously teaching children good manners had become such a rarity that ones who did have them stood out like a sore thumb.

[colleeng47]

I think Kari said it well. We can all just agree to disagree on this issue. And as LR said, everyone has their own parenting style that they swear works for them. Regardless of your parenting style, there are times in child rearing that the only thing a parent can do is . LOL

[briansgi]

Yes spank them! You are NOT disciplining your kids at home is the primary reason they are out of control at school! You are not doing it at home, let the schools do it! Here's a novel concept, start raising your kids with proper discipline and you won't have to worry about your kids getting spanked at school!

[colleeng47]

Originally Posted by briansgi

Yes spank them! You are NOT disciplining your kids at home is the primary reason they are out of control at school! You are not doing it at home, let the schools do it! Here's a novel concept, start raising your kids with proper discipline and you won't have to worry about your kids getting spanked at school!

Proper discipline does not have to include striking someone much smaller than you. If you can't get your children to behave without hitting them, you've lost control.

[briansgi]

Originally Posted by colleeng47

Proper discipline does not have to include striking someone much smaller than you. If you can't get your children to behave without hitting them, you've lost control.

And thus the "wussification" of America!
And from the poll results, looks like you are in the minority on this one!

[karibear]

Originally Posted by briansgi

And thus the "wussification" of America!
And from the poll results, looks like you are in the minority on this one!

That poll was ovre a year ago. Go back and read some of the newer posts. Teaching children to be polite, courteous, and thoughtful of others should start at home about the same time they start learning to walk. I rather think my kids would laugh themselves silly if anyone were to call them wusses. Both are responsible, hard-working adults, and they don't whine about how society owes them anything. They learned very early on that if they wanted something, they had to work for it, because usually I couldn't afford whatever it was. So they also learned early on how to earn money by giving their best efforts to whatever they were paid to do, or they wouldn't get another job from the same source.