[Mattie Jo]

nmnita,

We just came back from Ft. Smith. My husband doesn't think that we have seen enough of each city to judge which one is best. I didn't like Tulsa but only went once. I don't like Muskogee, but it is easy to get around and shop there. I have been there a few times but not in every area. Fayetteville, so far, is the best. The historic district, which is large, is set around a park square with a court house in the middle, but the court house takes up almost the entire square, and it is hilly. Not good shopping in historic district but nice mall. Now Ft. Smith is really spread out. The Arkansas River runs buy it which is nice. I don't like cities that are spread out though, but that is my own preference. At least it gives the town an airy feeling. The historic downtown begin on Garrison, I think, and at first it looks old, and then it looks like it has been renovated, which is nice. No restaurants there, and shopping is what you would have in an ordinary town. Van Buren, just across the river has beautiful historic buildings, antique stores, two or three cafes, and some gift shops.

What I liked about Ft. Smith is that they have a dog park that is on a lot of acreage with a small lake, and the grass is kept mowed. I couldn't believe it.

If I wanted to live close to a city I would prefer Fayetteville so far, and I like that it is close to Eureka Springs and Hot Springs, which people tell me I would love.

I think everyone sees cities and towns differently, and so you will see for yourself, and I can't wait to hear about your trip and views of areas and cities, towns, etc. I have a feeling that you may like Grove, OK. AT least I hope you get to visit it. It sounds interesting to me.

[Synopsis]

Hey jessaka,
It's over two hundred miles to Hot Springs from Fayetteville. That's not close to me!

Pretty much any area of Northeastern Oklahoma, Northwestern Arkansas, and Southwestern Missouri are really pretty. Southeastern Oklahoma and Southwestern Arkansas (ouachita mountains) are a beautiful area.

I'm sad to hear that you didn't like Tulsa jessaka. I guess it depends on where you go, and as you said, you've only been once. I lived there for two years (been to alot of other cities) and it has to be one of my favorite mid-sized cities.

[Mattie Jo]

Synopsis,

A hundred miles is only a 1 1/2 hour drive. It takes me that long to get to Tulsa, so it would be 3 hours to Eureka Spring.

Where would you suggest I go in Tulsa that I would like? I didn't like Woodward Park, the museum was nice, and I didn't like Utica Square. Am I missing something? I would like to go back someday and see if I am missing out on something?

[Synopsis]

I like:

The Arkansas River


The River Parks



Woodward Park




The Tulsa Zoo


The art-deco buildings downtown







Boston Avenue Methodist Church
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_...thodist_Church



Other churches in downtown that have a gothic look:




The wonderful old homes in Midtown




Cain's Ballroom (one of the best small concert venues in the world)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cain%27s_Ballroom


Blue Dome


Brady Theatre (another venue, affectionately called "The Old Lady on Brady")
http://www.bradytheater.com/

The Admiral Twin Drive-in Theatre - one of the largest (and still standing) drive-in theatres in America

The Philbrook and its villas




Tulsa Oktoberfest (voted one of the best in the world, not just the U.S.)
http://themozartcafe.homestead.com/oktoberfest.html

Cherry Street

21st street bridge (especially on 4th of July)


Brookside

The view of downtown from Chandler Park, right across the river (especially in the evening with the sun going down - gorgeous)


Chandler Park itself


Turkey Mountain



There are a lot of nice subtleties that I can't put my finger on about Tulsa as well. I like the overall general feel of the city, especially around mid-town. Tulsa is not as sprawling as many mid to large sized cities. In fact, Tulsa is pretty dense and has a decent urban core. I loved living there and if I had to live in a large city, I'd go back in a heartbeat (but I prefer country most of all). Oh yeah, it's green, it's hilly, lush, it's not too big, etc, etc, etc.

I will like the new downtown arena once it's finished next year. I'll have to visit and take in some games.


PS. I'm curious; what is there not to like about Woodward park? I think it's beautiful.

[Jammie]

Synopsis, as usual, your pics are beautiful!!! I had to chuckle when I saw, "William, the Artist" cause I remember him well from another forum.

Jessica, we went to the Boston Ave. Methodist Church and thought it was beautiful. We also drove by the cutest little church that had like a cottage shape to it~may have been Presbyterian, if I remember correctly.

The zoo was so-so, but it was kind of off-season since it was mid-Oct.

They have a neat aquarium in Jenks, too. We loved all the moonfish and just everything they had there.

We were SO impressed with the Gilcrease Museum. We also liked Woodward Park, but we love flowers and gardens. Unfortunately, we didn't get to see Philbrook cause we were going to leave and they didn't open until 10 am.

One of the things we noticed while we were there is that the motel didn't seem to have any literature about Tulsa or OK in general. They carried brochures for many things in Texas.

We've never lived in a city and I don't know if we ever will so Tulsa seemed big to us and had fast traffic. But we have to say that people were very considerate in their driving.

We thought Tulsa was beautiful, but just a bit too big for us. We don't have any regrets about going there since I've always wanted to see Tulsa. Just wish we'd have taken a couple extra days so we could've stayed in Grove longer.

[LC124]

Thanks, Jessaka. I've checked OK websites, but couldn't find anything about that particular question. What's the weather like there? Does it get really cold? I'd like to be where it isn't too bad in the winter.

[Mattie Jo]

Synopis,

Woodward Park was very small. I am used to places like Balboa Park, San Diego, Golden Gate, San Francisco, but Woodward was so small and what they had wasn't much.

I do like that Tulsa is more compact than other cities. I think the buildings in downtown look wonderful, I will check them out. But do they have shopping downtown? I remember going to Dallas and taking a lot of photos of their beautiful modern downtown buildings, but there was not shopping. I felt that rather sad. I always loved San Francisco because you can shop downtown.

I think I may like Cherry Street since it has stores. I am very particular when it comes to towns and cities. I thought a lot about that last night after your comment.

Cities (towns) I have loved are Santa Barbara, CA, San Luis Obispo, CA. Ashland, OR, Jacksonville, OR, Austin, Texas, Julian, CA, any well preserved historic downtown like Van Buren, Arkansas but I like great shopping in a historic district, which Van Buren didn't have. I like Tahlequah for the over all feel like you do Tulsa. The historic downtown here gives that feel too, but shopping there isn't much. I like the feel of this eastern part of Oklahoma which is why I live here. I liked the town of Ozark, AR too. I have lived all over California and Texas, parts of Mississippi and Florida. Seen a lot of towns and areas in NM, AZ, OR, TN, Alabama, Missouri, and a few others. CA has some rather wealthy cities that are picture perfect, but I felt that they were too perfect, such as La Jolla and Del Mar, and Marin area, which is above San Francisco. I didn't like Santa Fe, NM for the same reason, but I loved Taos, NM. But shopping is fun in those towns but rather expensive too so normally I didn't by much but had a good lunch or dinner.

I was disappointed in Utica Square because of the architectural style of the stores. I would have preferred them downtown in some of those great buildings that you have posted here. I actually don't like malls for this reason even though they offer good shopping.

One thing that bothers me also about cities is the traffic. I seem to get more edgy as I age, and yet years ago I used to drive in San Francisco and L.A. So I think that comes into play when I go to a city. I don't mind driving in Muskogee and Fayetteville was okay in certain areas. Perhaps you can get into Tulsa without driving over those messy freeways in the northern part of town where you have the airport, etc.

[Synopsis]

Hi jessaka,
I guess it's all a matter of priorities with each of us, and shopping isn't really one of mine.. What do you expect from a typical middle-aged guy? If they have a home depot or lowes, we're pretty much good to go! Downtown Tulsa has some shopping, but not much. That's changing as Vision2025 is implementing all of these changes to the dowtown area infrastructure (downtown lofts such as the Philtower lofts and others, the new arena, etc) and places like Blue Dome are becoming more active. As far as traffic goes, I live in DFW and driving in Tulsa (to me) is a piece of cake. The freeways on Sunday here are worse than those in Tulsa during rush hour. I heard somewhere that Tulsa has one of the shortest rush hour commutes in the country for a city of its size. Anyway, gotta go. I hope you have a great day!

BTW, below are some pics of the interiors of some of those grand buildings downtown (I love architecture). These aren't my personal pics though. They are from William The Artist's website (a Tulsa artist).

Holy Family Cathedral





The Philcade Building





First Presbyterian Church





First United Methodist Church



Trinity Episcopal Church





Philtower

[Mattie Jo]

Synopsis,

I thought that I had lost my last post but it was between your last one. Then I saw more photos that I liked. The Philbrook area looks great. What are the villas?

I love archetecture too. What you have shown makes me what to go there and visit the area soon. The churches are just wonderful. I like the older homes you posted too. I thought that Ft. Smith had a historic district too but my husband wasn’t feeling well the other day so we missed it.

You live in DFW. That is horrendous. I thought of moving back to Texas in the Northeast corner, but the VA was in Dallas area, and I didn’t want to have to go there with my husband for even a visit. I remember liking Canton, TX but I don’t remember the town, and I thought that I might like Tyler, TX but forgot what those areas looked like except for loving the big trees. I had spent a year in Florida and really missed greenery and real trees. I have nothing good to say about Florida except, They Have The Most Beautiful Beaches, but since you can’t take your dog to their beaches we never went but a few times and found a swimming hole in a small river. I also loved New Orleans and wanted to live there just to be in the French Quarter and the surrounded areas of New Orleans, but again it is another madhouse of traffic and hurricanes frighten me just as much as tornadoes, which is another reason to dislike parts of Florida. After having a pretty bad traffic accident in L.A. Co. I gringe at any town that is full of traffic, even 73 business district of Fayetteville bothers me. Perhaps I will get over that.

You know Tahlequah isn’t the most beautiful small town in the world, but the feel of the town and area are wonderful. The historic district is cute but not really the best for shopping, and other than that it is modern with ugly buildings. I have a friend that said that she didn’t like this town with his old flea market buildings on the way in to town. I don’t mind that, I just mind the fast food restaurants and other things like an ugly Wal-mart, Lowes, etc.

[Mattie Jo]

LC,

Tornadoes in the northeast areas from Grove to Tahlequah and I don't know where else barely stop by this way for a visit. Cherokee Co has only have 5 or so in the last 50 or 60 years. We are in a valley, so they prefer open flat areas. I am afraid of them too. They give you plenty of warning to take cover in various shelters.

Cold. Well, we had 3 snows, and it does get to be 18 degrees in the winter, and the winds can be cold, but I loved it. And we didn't get many icy windy days. It wasn't that cold all winter. Snow can stay on the ground for a few days to a week, and we had 3 snow storms this year and didn't get more than 3 inches. I had a warm jacket and hat so I wasn't bothered by it. My Ugg boots were also great. And I hate the cold too. Perhaps this year I just had better clothing. The coldest place I have ever been was in Juno, Alaska in July. No matter what I had on I couldn't get warm. Juno was the most beautiful town that I have ever seen because it rains there all year long and so people had wild flowers in their gardens and they just didn't look cultivated. Again, I really don't recall what the town looked like but walking around it was wonderful. So don't move to Juno. Ha. Don't move to Fargo, N.D. either.

San Diego, CA had the best climate for those that didn't like the cold, but the summers were cold to me, 70 and 80s don't cut it. When I say best, it wasn't best for me; I hated a lack of weather. 70 for winter, 70 and 80 for summer. Trees stayed green all year long. Very little rain and no thunder storms. When the weather man said it was going to rain you just wanted his job because he didn't have to be correct in order to keep it. One of the reasons why I hated the panhandle of Florida because it never stopped raining and they had hurricanes and tornadoes. You have to weight one area against another because you can't find the perfect Eden. Hawaii they say is too humid, Southern CA has no weather, AZ and NM are desert, but if you like desert, then they are okay, but I understand the nights get cold. Northern States are too cold. The south is too racist. Texas does'nt have big trees unless north east. I remember loving Missouri, AR, and now OK. I imagine that I might like N. Carolina and have been in the Smokies but gets so cold in winter. I have a friend that says that TN is the most beautiful state, again it is the south. The friendliest place that I have ever been in and lived in is Oklahoma.