[debbie at bouontiful]

[quote=StillwaterTownie;8231399]ICoburn is mainly a crusader for the religious right bunch. He probably pretty much agrees right on with Sally Kern in that area.

THIS IS EASTER WEEK, COULD WE SPEND MAYBE ONE WEEK NOT PUTTING DOWN US CRISTIANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One other concern I have about Coburn is his political philosophy might keep him from working hard to bring in federal dollars to Oklahoma.

YOUR NOT GOING TO GET FEDERAL MONEY, YOUR GOING TO PAY FOR EVERYONE ELSE WHO DOES GET IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Annemieke Roell]

THIS IS EASTER WEEK, COULD WE SPEND MAYBE ONE WEEK NOT PUTTING DOWN US CRISTIANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Debbie, nobody is putting down Christians, just the religious right zealots who insist on cramming THEIR believes down everybody else's throat.

And that goes pretty much year round, not just at Easter.

[colleeng47]

Originally Posted by lasomeday

His vote on anti-abortion probably stems from the fact that he is an OB-GYN and he knows the damages it does to the female body.

OMG, I can't believe I'm reading this! A fully informed woman, along with her partner and doctor should make the decision on what to do about a pregnancy. Women fought long and hard to keep from having someone "protect" them from their decisions.

[colleeng47]

GP, due to your posts, I researched and read a very good article on Supply Side v. Demand Side economics. I found it a lot easier to understand and follow than some of the posts on the business/investing/finance forum. They always manage to lose me when they start talking about how debt is our dollars.

[HeatherDawn]

Why is there a debate? There are town meetings if anyone wants to go. Big deal. Plus, I thought you were quitting a long time ago, GP...

[Goodpasture]

Originally Posted by HeatherDawn

...... I thought you were quitting a long time ago, GP...

I was going to, until someone decided I needed a history lesson then completely rewrote and misrepresented history. Had I tacitly kept silent it could have been construed as agreement with the misrepresentations that were stated.

[Synopsis]

Originally Posted by colleeng47

GP, due to your posts, I researched and read a very good article on Supply Side v. Demand Side economics. I found it a lot easier to understand and follow than some of the posts on the business/investing/finance forum. They always manage to lose me when they start talking about how debt is our dollars.

When it comes to numbers, I am a total dullard....

[HeatherDawn]

Originally Posted by Synopsis

When it comes to numbers, I am a total dullard....

Maybe so, but at least you know words like "dullard".

[TulsaArtist]

Usually I am for less federal spending. But this economy needs stimulus and our nation needs to shift the way it does things to become more efficient and profitable in the long term. Which will take investing short term. So in a way the recession is an opportunity. IF done wisely.

So when Coburn is fighting against gov. spending,,, I wish there were some finess to it and not a strict Idealogue view that just says no spending period.

IF in normal times, or even now to an extent, he were to get spending levels down as far as he could, fine... But once that step is over, its time to get as big a share for Oklahoma as possible. If the gov. says we are going to spend 1trillion dollars and Coburn does or does not get that proffered amount lower. If 1 trillion is still going to be spent, then for goodness sakes get Oklahoma the biggest share of that he can get. If this nation goes another 1 trillion in debt no matter what he does, WE need to make sure we are spending that money wisely here in Oklahoma and not some other state spending it on what they want to improve their economy.

We are going to be paying for that national debt whether we spend any of that money or not.

Better to have gotten as much as we can to spend as we see wise to make our local economies more cometitive, educate our children, expand our colleges, make our gov more efficient, put in rail to make our transportation more efficient, steer away from sprawl and road/highway expansion, etc. etc. Versus some other states and their cities being the only ones to make investments and spur their economies.

But right now we cant change what has happened with the current stimulus bill. Right now we need to get Oklahomas economy to be the leanest most efficient and competitive it can be so that we are in a place where we can help pay down this huge debt our nation is facing. We dont want to be a drag on the economy we want to help. We want to be growing not facing declines.

A new world and new world economy is shaping up. We all know where its going. Job wise, fuels and alternative fuels wise, environmentally, healthcare, etc. We just need to know what Oklahomas role in that world economy is going to be? How are we going to be a positive player? Are we going to embrace the tide of history and cleverly figure out ways to use it to flourish, or fight against it and languish?

Fight the good fight sure, but dont cut your legs out from underneath yourself at the same time.



One of the most important things for our future is going to be energy and transportation.

We have got to get more efficient with both. Having a sprawling, car centric, road and highway intensive transportaion infrastructure is going to hurt our competitive stance in relation to other cites and countries that are going with more rail and building more compactly.

I have a friend that lives in a city where he hasnt had a car in 10 years. He actually doesnt pay that much more for his living space. But he doesnt have a car payment, doesnt have car insurance, doesnt pay for fuel, doesnt pay for oil changes maintenance, new tires, etc. etc. Because his city is more dense they dont have to pay as much for roads, developers dont have to include as many parking spaces or parking garages. More density allows the mass transit, busses, rail, to be more effective, or people can get to more places with less expensive transportation like vespas, or bikes, or just walking.

In our city in order to have rail its going to cost more because we are more spread out, serving less people in a larger area, PLUS having to still pay for and maintain sprawling roads, parking lots, parking garages, our cars, etc. We have chosen one model over another. The model we chose worked fantastically for a while, BUT...

The world is becoming FLAT.

What does that mean? It means that wages across the world will slowly level out. Already wages are inching up in China and India. Wages in developed countries for similar jobs are going down. Products flow globally, like oil. Europe which pretty much devistated itself from the inside with 2 world wars "which gave us an advantage for a long time" Is going to get back into shape and become VERY competitive once again. The world is leveling out and will continue to do so. (even look at home values,,, lowering in other places, rising here,,, leveling out, This and other factors will continue to erode our "its less expensive to live here in Oklahoma" thing)

So what THIS means is that person or company in city "A", wherever they are in the world, with very efficient infrastructure and lower fuel costs is going to be more competitive and cheaper than city "B" that has spread out expensive infrastructure (cars are infrastructure we are paying for) and fuel costs. If I am a company and I can pay the person in "A" less than the person in "B", I am moving to "A". If I am an entrepreneur or worker in "A" and I dont have to earn or pay as much for transportation as the person in "B", I can sell my products for less and thus beat out the person in city "B".

We have already screwed ourselves because in order for us, say Tulsa, to shift from being more rail oriented and transportationally efficient,,, its going to cost more. We are already becoming less cost effective as the world flattens out and we compete against more efficient cities and countries. But again whats really going to hurt us is when we actually start to realize we are truly more inefficient and start having to build and or maintain TWO different types of infrastructures at the same time! Think of downtown for instance or the new downtown like place they are building in Jenks. Those developers and businesses still have to build parking garages, their employees and their consumers still have to pay for cars, driving their cars, insurance, fuel, etc. But then when we want to add rail, its an added expense. We dont have the density to get rid of cars and the necessity to build parking lots and parking garages. Most will still have to drive, etc. So we find ourselves in this very expensive transition point. If we dont change we will be at a disadvantage, when we do change its going to cost us more than other places that already have a good mass transit system and a city thats grown to efficiently use it.

But we need to start the "conversion" now. We have to develop better land use,infill, refill, etc. policies now. We have to get started on rail now. No, 20 years ago. I want Coburn fighting for rail not against it, and letting other cities and states build more rail. Conservatives can do it. Look at Salt Lake City and what they have done. Very conservative, lots of people said it would be a disater there. Waste of gov. money, wouldnt work, etc. Now if you go on forums and chats where they are talking about it. They have changed their tune. They see how its more economically efficient and is helping their city become more competitive, leaner and meaner. And we are going to need to be that way if we are going to compete in the world thats headed our way. Business as usual in this state will kill us. And there wont be enough oil left in this state in the future to pull us through.

This current downturn will end. The world will get flatter. We are going to be a little less powerful country. The rest of the world will grow stronger and more equal. Its the next downturn and shift 20-30 years from now thats going to tell the tale. Thats when the world will truly become more equal and have that level playing field. Thats when, what we do now will make a difference. Either we will be in a competitive spot, or not. Its that next big shift that I keep looking at and wondering where we will be in the scheme of things. The country may be weaker, but will Oklahoma, will Tulsa and OKC be stronger and able to fight in that world?

[StillwaterTownie]

Originally Posted by colleeng47

OMG, I can't believe I'm reading this! A fully informed woman, along with her partner and doctor should make the decision on what to do about a pregnancy. Women fought long and hard to keep from having someone "protect" them from their decisions.

Hey, there's no shortage of people in Oklahoma who believe with heart and soul that abortion should be banned under any circumstance. Unfortunately, such people can't point to any countries where they would like to live where abortion really is banned. For one thing, like in Saudi Arabia where abortion is banned you would have to change your religion to Islam and go out in public donned in total blackness, if a woman, if you wanted to live there permanently.