[Al Gerhart]

There is a Tea Party being organized for the Fourth of July, State Capitol steps, we have the permit but are just now organizing the event. The idea is to show the politicians and the media that people are not happy with the deficit spending and the bailouts. This is non partisan, most of us believe that BOTH parties got us to where we are today. If anyone is interested in volunteering or attending, please contact me.

al "at" thecarpentershop.net (remove the "at" and replace with @, darned spam bots)

We have a website set up with some info:

Sooner Tea Party

We have a list of items needed and volunteer jobs that need to be filled for the event. Please spread the word if you can, send friends and family emails, post on forums, contact the media, or just chat it up at work.

Thanks,

Al

[Annemieke Roell]

Do you guys have alternatives? Not much point in complaining if you don't have another solution.

[Synopsis]

I think the solution that they are proposing is to cut spending Schousse. These types of events are about free speech and the ability to gather together in a singular voice to speak your mind.

[debbie at bouontiful]

Good solution to me just stop spending period!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Would love to help but live in Southeast OK with a ranch to take care of. I sure wish there was something else we could do to let our spendthrift politians stop spending our money. I think they think it is monopoly money. Today you have Boardwalk but so what if you lose it, it is only a game to them.

[Goodpasture]

Originally Posted by Al Gerhart

There is a Tea Party being organized for the Fourth of July, State Capitol steps, we have the permit but are just now organizing the event. The idea is to show the politicians and the media that people are not happy with the deficit spending and the bailouts. This is non partisan, most of us believe that BOTH parties got us to where we are today. If anyone is interested in volunteering or attending, please contact me.

al "at" thecarpentershop.net (remove the "at" and replace with @, darned spam bots)

We have a website set up with some info:

Sooner Tea Party

We have a list of items needed and volunteer jobs that need to be filled for the event. Please spread the word if you can, send friends and family emails, post on forums, contact the media, or just chat it up at work.

Thanks,

Al

Have you ever studied history? You seriously have a desire to put us into a full depression that will last decades?

[Synopsis]

Originally Posted by Goodpasture

Have you ever studied history? You seriously have a desire to put us into a full depression that will last decades?

Can you explain why a cuts in spending will put us into a full depression GP?

[HeatherDawn]

My friend and I had one at OSU on tax day but we were pretty poorly organized as we didn't know what to expect. We wanted to have one for the whole town of Stillwater on the 4th, but it's the 4th. So many people will be out of town that it's just not going to happen. Maybe we'll get 'em next time.

Good luck at the Capitol, Al!

[Al Gerhart]

[SIZE=2]Good point Schousse.

I can't speak for everyone of course, but the general feeling is that were we to return to actually using the constitution, both our economy and our society would be better off. I don't think anyone would agree that spending the trillion or so dollars that our grandchildren will be forced to pay off is a good thing.

Spending on social issues and needs is fine with me as long as it is done locally or at the state level where some common sense and accountablility are possible. But the Federal government should be concentrating on those things that the states agreed upon when the country was founded.

Debbie, if you can't attend, there are plenty of other ways to help out. Spreading the word is our biggest need, and we have so little cash (how about none at this point other than what our volunteers pay out of our own pockets) that any help would be appreciated. We ordered 1,000 pocket size constitutions today, which my wife and I will pay for till the fundraising catches up. We will give them away at the event, with donations accepted if anyone wants to help replenish the stock for the next event, most likely the 9-12 event.

Hi Goodpasture.
I would be interested in hearing your arguements that show that responsible spending would lead to a "full depression that will last decades". I can think of only one depression that lasted even a decade, and most economists have long recoginzed that what FDR did was responsible for the longevity of the Great Depression.

What isn't debatable is the fact that spending trillions of dollars that we don't have will help our economy. Let's use my employees as a case study. They work their 40 hours, but get paid about one quarter to one fifth less than what they earned because the Federal government takes out their bite. The state taxes are chicken feed, so that isn't too bad. Then I have to match most of what the Feds take from my employees, in some cases I have to pay more than what is taken from the employee, which means that I can pay less per hour than I would be able to otherwise. Worse, I don't get to invest in better machinery that would make my workers job's easier and more productive, leading to better pay and better profits.

Bottom line is that that employee's spending power is reduced by one quarter to one fifth, but my spending power is also reduced by almost the same amount. And neither of us has gone to the gas station or grocery store where our spending power is again reduced. Bottom line is that the biggest stimulus possible would be to have a tax holiday on payroll taxes for a few months. Does anyone really believe the Social Security will be there when we retire anyway? That program is trillions and trillions of dollars underfunded, and the Medicade program is worse off.

But the single most thing that concerns me about the spending is that it will inevitablly lead to very high inflation which is a tax that none of us can escape. I was just starting business in the Carter years, and we all remember how horrible the inflation and interest rates were. I once ran a $200 add in the local paper that drew over one thousand applicants for four jobs! The line stretched around the block for the better part of a week till we ran out of applications.

This spending will do only one thing in the end, devalue our currency. Some say that this is the governments plan, devalue the currency, then pay back the national debt with cheaper dollars. Problem is the oil countries will want more dollars for the same amount of oil as will other importers, making all our imports more expensive.

Me, I'm a registered independent voter, have been for many years. I think both parties are the cause of our current problems and that citizens would be better off if the government just protected the borders, delivered mail, and did what individuals or the state couldn't do for ourselves.

Thanks for the best wishes Heather. We know it is a tough day for a rally, but the other rallies were held on working days and we thought doing a Saturday morning rally would allow more participation. There will be rallies all across the country, and when the original Tea Party organization dropped their Fourth of July rally, those of us that were dissapointed banded together to get it going again.

Thanks for all the comments, looking forward to hearing Goodpastures explanation about how free speech causes depressions.

Al
[/SIZE]

[colleeng47]

Originally Posted by Goodpasture

Have you ever studied history? You seriously have a desire to put us into a full depression that will last decades?

There is no consensus among the "experts" that spending our way of a recession is the best way to handle it. And a lot of Americans who are footing the bill for this idea are not in sync with it. They have the right to be heard.

[Goodpasture]

Originally Posted by Al Gerhart

.................looking forward to hearing Goodpastures explanation about how free speech causes depressions.

Where did you get the idea that free speech causes depressions?

Originally Posted by Al Gerhart

and most economists have long recoginzed that what FDR did was responsible for the longevity of the Great Depression.

Nonsense. Two UCLA professors do not constitute "most" economists.

The normal business cycle in the mid 20's began a recession. At that point in time the Republican administration, at the urging of manufacturers like Carnegie and Morgan, initiated punitive tariffs. The resulting increase in cost of goods, put goods out of the price of everyday citizens. When people quit buying, even big companies go broke and start laying off (ask GM and Chrysler). When people get laid off, they buy even less. And thus begins a cycle of reductions in manufacturing and employment. The ONLY way to stop this cycle is for people to buy things. The only way they can buy things is to go to work and make money. Somehow, somewhere they have to have jobs, or they don't buy. In steps FDR, after the depression had run for more than four years (ALL of Hoovers administration and a good part of the Coolidge Administration....you don't think Wall Street crashed 8 months into the Hoover term because of what Hoover did, do you?) and began government deficit spending. There were two goals in mind. To put people to work, and to develop public projects and public protection regulations (things like the TVA, FHA, SEC, FDIC, FSA, Social Security etc). Remember, FDR did not take office until 1933 (he was elected in 32) and in 1929, while the U.S. unemployment rate averaged 3% it rose in 1932 to 25% of all American workers and 37% of all nonfarm workers. THAT was the result of incompetent GOP leadership.

In 1933, unemployment was 24.9%, in 34 it was 21.7% in 35 it was 20.1% in 36 it was 16.9% in 37 it was 14.3% in 38, bowing to GOP pressure to reduce federal spending it went back up to 19.0%, back on track in 39 it was 17.2%, in 40 it was 14.6%, in 41 it was 9.9%, in 42 it hit 4.7%, and when war geared up, it dropped to 1.9%. Obviously the injection of federal cash affected what had been a downward spiral.

And the ultimate economic stimulus was WWII. 100% (effectively) employment, the greatest federal deficit in history to pay for the war, the highest tax rate (in 1945, the highest tax rate for people making over $200,000 was 94%). And the result of that deficit spending and high tax rate? What has been called "The Greatest Generation."

When the war ended–with the wheels of the economy rolling full-speed and wartime distortions removed–people started spending their savings and their wages (think: demand), and we entered the great prosperity of the 50's. Over the next 35 years that prosperity allowed us to pay down the debt that pulled us out of the Depression, bringing it steadily down, to 35% of GDP by 1980. (Reagan kicked it back up to 70%.)

Short story, it was the massive fiscal stimulus of wartime deficit spending that finally broke the Depression's back. Now we're in the same situation (with the same causes–but with a worse debt position). If we take WWII deficit spending as a model, how much fiscal stimulus should we provide? If we do half of what we did in World War II–increase our government debt by 35% of GDP–we're talking something like 4 trillion dollars in government deficit spending. (Though investment spending takes longer to work.) If that spending also serves to raise our ongoing government/redistributive spending and (especially) taxing to a responsible level at which a high productivity economy has the aggregate demand to thrive without meltdowns, the resulting prosperity should allow us to pay off that debt in less than 20 years. (Assuming we get a more responsible government we had under Reagan or the Bush's.....the ONLY fiscally responsible administration we've had since Nixon was Clinton)

Now you tell me why we should go to a “Tea Party” to play partisan politics for some moronic politician who has NO clue as to what economic history teaches.

Or not. I am done with trying to persuade imbeciles that they should study history. this is a forum for people to move. You want to rant politics to sycophants, go for it, but do it in the politics forum. I am done here.