[Bass&Catfish2008]

Originally Posted by wyllow61

Thank you, Nomad57--most people I've talked to from other states dislike it here for many of the same reasons. Clannish? oh yeah...very....why I dont know.

What I find interesting is Redbird's line "another I hate it here thread"...which tells me it is a common theme here. For those of you who questioned my age andexperience, I'm 48, have lived in Germany, all up and down the west coast, and the western states. I've been to Chicago, DC, Baltimore, Phili, Austin, so yes, I do have places to compare. I pick on "christian" because you oklahoman's reference it in everything--I'm a christian this, I'm a christian that....you actually have church info on your news!!! I used to be against stereotypes meant that after coming here....and seeing so many people fit a stereotype, that I cannot argue that stereotypes are wrong because they are certainly everywhere here--toothless, uneducated, redneck, etc.
To Synopsis--I have seen countless people, countless times leave garbage on the road, in stores (I saw a woman once leave her drink cup on a stack of shirts at Pennys at the mall), thrown out of moving cars, you name it people dump it here...it's disgusting. I've been here 4 years. I've seen people at my apartment complex attempt to throw a bag of garbage from their car to the dumpster--which then lands on the ground as they drive off. To be fair, I have friends in Georgia who say that it is dirtier there.....which I cannot imagine.
And yes, I have to "make" my students clean up the classroom because they do not know how to clean! At least me forcing the issue helps them (hopefully) be more conscious about dumping thier garbage all over.
No, I do not walk around with a scowl on my face. I am a very friendly person and enjoy talkign to people....normal people that is. My friends know how I feel about Okla, my students perhaps get it throughout the semester...I like to pick on your silly laws and such....point out the racism/classism/fundamentalism here.....

What I find interesting in reading everyone's replies to my post is you all turn around and question my attitude, where I'm from, etc....but do not look at my criticisms themselves. What does being christian have to do with tailgating at 80mph on the freeway? It's called being nice...being courteous to others...simple christian stuff like that does NOT exist here, yet religious lipservice is everywhere here. Religion is a major hypocrisy here in practice--people do not live what they preach. Many of your answers themselves are evidence of the attitude of people here....

>>>>>
my students perhaps get it throughout the semester...I like to pick on your silly laws and such....point out the racism/classism/fundamentalism here.....
<<<<<

You are the prime example of the type of transplant we do not want in the great state of Oklahoma. I bet the majority of Okie parents would be appalled at your attitude and how/what you are "teaching" their children.

You are clearly above us, an elitist of the highest degree; and, Oklahoma will be much better off if you go somewhere else where you can share your snooty worldview with folks like yourself. Again, Austin would be a good fit for you as well as San Francisco.

Good luck with finding a place where you are happy. Blessings.

[_redbird_]

Originally Posted by wyllow61

Thank you, Nomad57--most people I've talked to from other states dislike it here for many of the same reasons. Clannish? oh yeah...very....why I dont know.

Huh? Most of the people you've talked to from other states? Maybe you came here with a closed mind? As for clannish. Are you referring to whites? Hispanics? African Americans? Native Americans? There is no unified front to Oklahoma. Not even close! Healthy factionalism abounds. Get out of your head once in a while and stop trying to be superior to everyone and everything. Break down some of your own walls.

Everyone likes their own distinctive state and chooses to live where they are happiest. (You haven't mastered that one yet.)

So it stands to reason, the people you spoke to from other states simply like it there better for a myriad of reasons. It does not follow that you can make broad generalizations about any of those states, nor that those states do not have the same problems we have here. You know, trash, crime, fundies, unhappy grad students....

I think your nose is held high and proud and the only way for you to maintain your delusion is to constantly find fault with your surroundings and the people therein. And this second post of yours really makes that point. You ARE UNHAPPY! And it's not Oklahoma's fault!

Originally Posted by wyllow61

What I find interesting is Redbird's line "another I hate it here thread"...which tells me it is a common theme here.

Strike two. I didn't say it was common, I said "another one", which means it is not the first. Duh. Grasping that people prefer one state over another.

Originally Posted by wyllow61

For those of you who questioned my age andexperience, I'm 48, have lived in Germany, all up and down the west coast, and the western states. I've been to Chicago, DC, Baltimore, Phili, Austin, so yes, I do have places to compare.

So naturally with your wordly and metropolitan experience, it makes it sooo much easier to nitpick and hold your lofty "I have been everywhere, so that makes me superior" attitude. More bad news. There are litterbugs in each of the places you have lived in. And there will be people in each city you don't like or relate to on any level. Shocking!

Originally Posted by wyllow61

I pick on "christian" because you oklahoman's reference it in everything--I'm a christian this, I'm a christian that....you actually have church info on your news!!!

Wrong, Miss Metro. You sadly made the jump from rude drivers to this being a so-called christian state. You found a behavior you didin't like and tried to dump your hatred for bible-thumpers. Even I don't care for bible thumpers, but I don't make the jump from rude drivers to a put down of bible thumpers. You are on a roll here.

Originally Posted by wyllow61

I used to be against stereotypes meant that after coming here....and seeing so many people fit a stereotype, that I cannot argue that stereotypes are wrong because they are certainly everywhere here--toothless, uneducated, redneck, etc.

Okay, little unhappy grasshopper. A stereotype IS based on a partial truth. But as such it is an untruth. Do you take this condescending attitude towards your students? I bet you do. Still scared to tell us your major and what school you are in? Because I would love to hear from your class.

Originally Posted by wyllow61

To Synopsis--I have seen countless people, countless times leave garbage on the road, in stores (I saw a woman once leave her drink cup on a stack of shirts at Pennys at the mall), thrown out of moving cars, you name it people dump it here...it's disgusting. I've been here 4 years. I've seen people at my apartment complex attempt to throw a bag of garbage from their car to the dumpster--which then lands on the ground as they drive off.

I have seen countless acts which defy my personal moral and ethical compass, but I have learned there are things under my control and then there are people who simply don't care. Sad to inform you but that is not limited to Okies. Every city you have been to, there will be things going on for which you don't care to see. Are you going to make a list in each one? Go ahead.

Originally Posted by wyllow61

To be fair, I have friends in Georgia who say that it is dirtier there.....which I cannot imagine.
And yes, I have to "make" my students clean up the classroom because they do not know how to clean! At least me forcing the issue helps them (hopefully) be more conscious about dumping thier garbage all over.

To be fair, oh my, LOL. Listen, your true colors are starting to show. The snob act slowly coming out. Once again you make the broad sweeping generalization that "your students do not know how to clean".

God, you are unable to process that not everyone is alike and not everyone is a slob. Some people DO put their trash in the proper receptacle. But then, that admission would ruin your uppity attitude. So cling tightly to your condescending ways and get as much mileage as you can!

Originally Posted by wyllow61

No, I do not walk around with a scowl on my face. I am a very friendly person and enjoy talkign to people....normal people that is. My friends know how I feel about Okla, my students perhaps get it throughout the semester...I like to pick on your silly laws and such....point out the racism/classism/fundamentalism here.....

You are definitely a fun to be around! I like you already! There are many people do not care for Oklahoma's status as a Red State or religious fundies in general. You might want to venture over to the Religion forum and you will sadly find fundies are not limited to Oklahoma. (But you might have to start a SCOWLING FACE thread over there too.)

What "silly" laws do you refer to? We would love to hear them, and you will again be shocked that not everyone here likes all the laws. Keep trying to kick us down though. You are definitely digging a nice hole.

Originally Posted by wyllow61

What I find interesting in reading everyone's replies to my post is you all turn around and question my attitude, where I'm from, etc....but do not look at my criticisms themselves.

Actually, we see the same things you see. What, you think you are the only one who sees litter or people littering? That lofty view of yourself is one reason why people laugh at your post. You are so condescending and trying so hard to be "the first one" to see everything that is wrong here.

We just don't automatically make broad sweeping generalizations about all Oklahoman s. Admit it, grad student, there are people who do not fit your hate list.

Originally Posted by wyllow61

What does being christian have to do with tailgating at 80mph on the freeway? It's called being nice...being courteous to others...simple christian stuff like that does NOT exist here, yet religious lipservice is everywhere here. Religion is a major hypocrisy here in practice--people do not live what they preach. Many of your answers themselves are evidence of the attitude of people here....

I don't tailgate. And there are many others who ARE nice in traffic. And many of them are Christians. Are you seeing a trend here?

You are like Rush Limbaugh, you take an obvious truth and then use it to bridge to a personal rant.

In this case, there are xians in Oklahoma and there are rude drivers in Oklahoma. Therefore, (in your sad little mind) the entire state is full of rude drivers and the christians here are only paying lip service, and there are too many references to religion in general.

Although people may tailgate me, I don't turn it into an anti-christian rant. Sounds like you have major issues with religious people.

[_redbird_]

Originally Posted by wyllow61

For Jammie---I got the law enforcement stats I quoted in my original post from the FBI crime stats per state....Okla, according to them, is number 1 for animal cruelty cases, though that was in 06 I believe...

Sad little weeping wyllow. FBI crime stats are never complete. They are only based on what is turned in to them. The reality:

# of crimes actually committed

# of crimes reported to police

# of crimes with a disposition i.e. dropped, found guilty, etc

# of crimes submitted to FBI by city/county/state law enforcement agencies (not every entity turns them in)

If you seriously think the majority of Oklahoman's are not nice or clean, then you need to get out of the city and visit the rest of Oklahoma. Your views are skewered at this point, I seriously doubt you ever will, because then an admission of new truths would be in order. And I seriously think you are incapable of being totally honest with yourself about Oklahoma or its people.

[okcpulse]

wyllow61, we "Oklahomans" know very well the shortcomings of our state, and many of us acknowledge that those issues need to be addressed. Having been born and raised in Oklahoma (I am 30 years old) I can tell you first hand that people (at least in the OKC metro area) care more about the state than they did in 1987, when there was little or no vision.

But the problem that many of have with your post is this... you are condemning the state for statistics that are dynamic but what you treat as static. By writing off Oklahoma as damaged goods you have sent a message to us that you are the type of person unwilling to use this as an opportunity to turn animal cruelty, or any problem you have with "us" in Oklahoma around. When people in Oklahoma... or anywhere for that matter... are caught with hundreds of starving puppies and the like... they go to jail. Since my move to Houston, wyllow61, I have learned one honest universal truth, Oklahomans are not the only people out there making mistakes.

Houston has many great qualities, but just as many negatives as I have pointed out before. And animal cruelty is no stranger to Houston. Why do they have a show on Animal Planet dedicated to cases in Houston? It is certainly not for PR. Since moving to Houston, I have seen numerous stories on some crazy things that happen in your coveted Texas... from badly abused horses to puppy mills and households packed full of diseased cats (several of which had been dead for some time). And it doesn't stop there... child abuse is no different. In 2007 a guy in Galveston threw his girlfriend's baby in a microwave becasue it wouldn't stop crying, and his excuse was that God told him to (which is complete BS). Another couple killed their 4 year old daughter, packed her body in a Rubbermaid container and tossed it over the Causeway bridge. I don't mean to be graphic, but I am not going to sugarcoat it as I am a loving father and it disgusts me that people near my age are that warped as to do something so sick to children who just want to be loved.

As far as trash is concerned, just yesterday after getting to The Woodlands and leaving the Park N' Ride, a ton of litter still lines I-45 and Loop 336 in Conroe, and has been that way since... well... since moving here in 2006. Only a few short times was it ever clean.

But you know what, that is the ugly side of life. It is not an Oklahoma thing or a Texas thing or an east coast or west coast thing. It's life. Much in the same way that there are many, many good, environmentally caring people in Oklahoma, Texas and any other state.

As far as Christianity is concerned, it is a faith that is under heavy attack in this country because the general populace has gotten confused as to what is the true meaning of Christianity. Many people claim to be Christian but are not. A true Christian isn't rude or filthy, but caring and diligent.

In closing, I cannot wait to return to Oklahoma City. It is a place where I want to make a difference and leave behind a legacy. Many other people in Oklahoma City are striving to make a difference. I can't speak much on behalf of the rest of the state, but we are a work in progress that, like everyone else, suffers setbacks and has hurdles to overcome. You as a teacher shouldn't be so bold as to throw all 3.6 million people under the bus. Your small corner of Oklahoma wasn't a good experience, I am sorry about that. You could have taken the opportunity to make a positive difference in Oklahoma, but did not. That, in short, is America's problem.

[colleeng47]

It's sad that the OP riled up so many people. Regardless of what she denied, I'm sure it was done on purpose.

I've lived/worked in NJ, PA, NY, GA, AZ, NV, CO, CA and now OK. And I've been, well, happy everywhere I lived. I saw good and bad everywhere I've lived. I can say with all honesty that I don't find OK any more littered than anywhere else. I find the people to be friendlier here than anywhere else I've lived/worked. They are also more religious, but since I have no fear of religion, it simply doesn't bother me. Driving -- well I drive I-40, I-44, I-35 and I-235 on a daily basis. Maybe I'm just a fast driver, or maybe I drive in the correct lane, but I'm not troubled by tailgaters. And here's a suggestion: If someone is tailgating you, pull into the other lane and let them pass. How's that for an idea? Works for me.

I say with all sincerity that I hope you find your place in life. I really hate to see someone so unhappy with their circumstances.

[Synopsis]

To redbird, okcpulse, and colleen. It's too bad that I can't rep you right now because these are some sincere, honest, and heartfelt posts. Does Oklahoma have problems? Yes.

However, I've traveled around the world and lived in many, many states. None of them stack up against Oklahoma in terms of good people and the will to make the state better; none of them.

[whitewave]

Wyllow61, please keep in mind that Oklahoma has many "transplants", such as yourself. So when you see someone littering or tailgating don't automatically assume that they're from Oklahoma. A lot of people from out of state (or country) come here and treat Oklahoma the way they treated their own hometown.
For the record, Okies don't like it.

[briansgi]

Wyllow61, I've opened the door for you, please exit the great state of Oklahoma ASAP!!

[mkfarnam]

I dislike tailgaters myself, it's a constant rage in Ca, but not once has it happened to me in Ok.

Wyllow61, if tailgating is such a problem, as you claim, here's a suggestion: when someone climbs up behind you, turn on your parking lights, They'll think you hit the brakes and back off

[_redbird_]

Originally Posted by briansgi

Wyllow61, I've opened the door for you, please exit the great state of Oklahoma ASAP!!

LOL! You always have good posts, briansgi. I think the statement by wyllow that the majority of people in OK are not nice or whatever is THE cue for me to say, OP speak with forked tongue!

I live in Holdenville, and the majority of the people ARE nice and do not litter, and they brush their teeth. HAHA. That statement takes the cake.

She reminds me of a prof at KSU. He was a PhD from Harvard and he totally ridiculed the kids from small town Kansas. The saddest part was he never got over his being from Harvard and having been to Oxford only to wind up at Kansas State University.

I bet a ton of horse apples, the OP winds up unhappy where ever she lands, even IF she gets his/her Master's.