[karibear]

Originally Posted by Goodpasture

So why didn't you use your private insurance?

Wasn't any. Wasn't any available, period. COBRA would have cost me over 500.00/month and it would have expired by then, anyway. WA has an interesting state health plan, it's divvied up by county and costs are prorated by family size and income. Unfortunately, the one provider that the clinic we went to would accept wasn't available in the county we lived in - same county where the clinic was, by the way. I'd just had Medicare kick in after having nothing for 2 years - amazing, how a person can think they actually have something to fall back on, when what it amounts to is a deep, dark, pit to fall into. My husband had Medicaid, for what that was worth. Mostly comments from various doctor's offices and clinics saying 'Great, you have resources now. Good luck, we don't accept Medicaid.' He couldn't even get social security because social security claimed they had no record of him ever having worked. And don't I wish the IRS had the same lack of records!

[Synopsis]

Originally Posted by Goodpasture

Are you now saying that the various tribes administering the IHS do not constitute a form of government?

How many millions of Americans don't have a last resort? Their last resort is ER followed by bankruptcy. I have strict instructions to my family. If I collapse wait till I am dead before you call an ambulance. I do not want to spend my final days worrying about bankrupting my estate (such as it is). And if the billions of administration money that insurance companies pay out along with shareholder dividends and corporate bonuses went into the VA, it would have a lot of better facilities and staff.

Yes, they are a government; in fact they are considered nations and have ambassadors to the US Government in Washington, DC (although I'm sure you already knew that). However, they are not the US Government with all of the fraud, waste, abuse. The nations are self-sustaining and spend their money more wisely than the US Government.

As for your last paragraph, I agree with it with the exception of the VA. Government run programs have a consistent track record of poorly managing money and they are full of fraud and abuse.

These stats are not "exactly" right but close. Something like 337 BILLION dollars runs the Medicare system. All of that money for around 43 million customers. That's billions of dollars spent on each and every person in the medicare system. Where is the rest of that money going? Into the pockets of lobbyists and corporations is my bet.

[Synopsis]

From the Dept. of Justice in 2006.

Net Medicare mandatory outlays (mandatory outlays less total off setting receipts including
premiums and amounts paid by the states) are projected by CBO to reach $326.8 billion in FY
2006. This is only the cost to the federal government; Medicare enrollees also pay a very large
share of the cost through premiums, deductibles, and co-payments. A more inclusive measure
from the National Health Expenditure (NHE) Amounts shows that when the enrollees’ share of
spending is added, total Medicare outlays in 2006 will be about $420 billion.

And this doesn't take into account the nearly 100 billion dollars the government pays out to fight fraud, while only recovering (in 2006) approximately 1.7 billion of those dollars taken fraudulently.

GP. Like you - I believe something needs to be done. I don't claim to have the answers, or all of them anyway. If anyone can relate to not having insurance it's me. I think you all know that I fell in the shower a few weeks ago and cracked (at least) two ribs. I couldn't go to the doctor because I knew what little funds we have left would have taken a huge hit. So, I just suffered through the pain and (disgustingly) threw up blood for two days (sorry to be so graphic). Ice packs, ibuprofen, and an occasional nip of whiskey were the only painkillers that I could afford.

If this bill passes, I dearly hope that I am wrong, I do. I understand the 40 million Americans or so that have no coverage. It shouldn't be this way in America.

[Synopsis]

Here's another prime example of how inefficient the government is...

In writing dozens and dozens of proposals over the years for government contracts, we are always asked to deliver the proposals (most of them hundreds and hundreds of pages long consisting of numerous volumes) in hard copy format (paper). And for each proposal, they insist on anywhere from 4 to 18 copies. For each solicitation the government puts out, there are dozens and dozens of companies vying for these contracts. And to boot, they don't even want the hard copy printed on both sides of the paper most of that time (single-sided only). I once shipped 14 boxes of material for one proposal to the US government.

Multiply the number of companies publishing their proposals for one government solicitation (RFP - Request for Proposal) by the thousands of government contracts out there and you're wasting a HUGE volume of paper.

I've suggested to my superiors in the past that we propose to the government only using electronic format (PDF) responses. I was told, don't even think that! I asked why and said that nobody has ever even tried to because of the repercussions from the government (not giving you a second glance on your proposal).

When speaking or emailing the CO (contracting officer for the government), you can never bring up such foolish things.

And another thing. You should go to fbo.gov and pick an RFP for any government contract. You should see the ridiculous things that are in some of these requests. First off, the requests themselves are usually more than 100 pages long filled with all manner of redundancies and are so poorly worded that the government provides a period of up to one month after the solicitation is posted just to answer/clarify questions from those companies vying for the contract.

BTW, fbo.gov is a free sight and anyone is allowed to go in and review contracts, download the documentation, ammendments and such at any time. I encourage you all to take a look. Heck, you may even get a contract award! Doubtful though unless you're running a company with at least two or three dozen corporate employees.

[karibear]

I, for one, would be a lot happier if there was a provision to place some control on pharmaceutical companies. When I lived in WA, there was a constant parade of senior citizens going to Canada to buy their meds. It's gotten to the point where the Mayo Clinic [at least I think that's who it is] has a website devoted to what to look for in buying prescription drugs online.

I have a friend who is old enough, and has more than enough wrong with her, to retire with straight social security or social security disability. But she can't, because she can't afford to do without the meds she needs to stay alive for the 2 years it takes for Medicare to kick in. She keeps working because at least at work she has health insurance, but the prescription co-pay is horrific. What used to cost her just under 300.00 every 3 months has just increased to over 1,000.00 for the same meds for the same 3 months. That's her co-pay.

And I would be more than thrilled to find any kind of insurance that would cover dental - Medicare will only if there are injuries severe enough to require hospitalization, lilke having one's teeth knocked out in an auto accident. There's nothing for normal, preventive care. The few plans there are are extremely limited as to what and how much they cover, and which dentist you can use. It's worse than the HMOs.

[Towhee]

Originally Posted by karibear

Medicare and Medicaid aren't as good as you think they are. Medicare, for one, has a co-pay just like any health insurance plan, and they can and do arbitrarily decide whether something is necessary. If they decide against it - after the fact, naturally, and a lot of review - the patient is left to pay for the whole thing. I've been paying off one of those for at least the past 5 years now. Then there's Medicaid. It's great, in theory, but there's no law requiring any doctor or clinic to honor it. If there was, my husband would still be alive.

People rant about Medicare and Medicaid....but what did they do before it was established????

BTW, I am not into government bashing, or president bashing. I think they are just as human as we are!

[Goodpasture]

Originally Posted by karibear

Wasn't any. Wasn't any available, period. COBRA would have cost me over 500.00/month

Precisely. Annemieke had cancer two years ago. She cannot get private insurance at any price. If something come up that she cannot piggyback on her GOVERNMENT Sooner Care Plan for her cancer, she does without.


The point is not "how bad are the current government alternatives" or "how bad is the proposed plan" but "what is the alternative to some sort of government mandated or sponsored plan."

The current system is badly broken and expensive. Because it is focused on profits it is DESIGNED to provide NO service to sick people, and expensive service to those well enough to not really need it.

We HAVE to make health care delivery a NO-PROFIT system. Profits are bad in this situation. Making people healthy is the goal, not corporate bonuses and shareholder confidence. And employer provided health care has made us non-competitive in the industrialized world.

It has got to change, and any change except for "refining" the status quo is essential. refining the status quo is leaving it profit based, and that is what is killing us (literally) now.

[Synopsis]

Geez. I'm glad Anamieke is better GP. I take it that since you said "had" cancer she no longer has cancer.

One of the things that I DO like about the bill is the provision stating that nobody can be denied insurance because of pre-existing health conditions. There ARE good things in the proposed bill, and I am not an expert on the subject by any means. And you're right; the current system is broken and expensive.

To purchase insurance for me and my family would cost upwards of 2000 a month, and that wouldn't be a good insurance plan either.

Anamieke, you stay well you hear?

Originally Posted by Goodpasture

Precisely. Annemieke had cancer two years ago. She cannot get private insurance at any price. If something come up that she cannot piggyback on her GOVERNMENT Sooner Care Plan for her cancer, she does without.


The point is not "how bad are the current government alternatives" or "how bad is the proposed plan" but "what is the alternative to some sort of government mandated or sponsored plan."

The current system is badly broken and expensive. Because it is focused on profits it is DESIGNED to provide NO service to sick people, and expensive service to those well enough to not really need it.

We HAVE to make health care delivery a NO-PROFIT system. Profits are bad in this situation. Making people healthy is the goal, not corporate bonuses and shareholder confidence. And employer provided health care has made us non-competitive in the industrialized world.

It has got to change, and any change except for "refining" the status quo is essential. refining the status quo is leaving it profit based, and that is what is killing us (literally) now.

[karibear]

Originally Posted by Towhee

People rant about Medicare and Medicaid....but what did they do before it was established????

BTW, I am not into government bashing, or president bashing. I think they are just as human as we are!

In my case, if I'd been told before hand that Medicare wouldn't cover what my doctor recommended, I wouldn't have done it. In my husband's case, he had full coverage through Medicaid, but there were no practitioners who would accept it. So - he died. Just like people did before. It's pitiful that medical care is such a money-oriented business in the US. Coverage is more of a joke, and not a funny one. But have you, personally, ever tried to comfort someone who is dying and doesn't understand why the doctors who could help him, and have already told him about all the things they could do before they found out he only had Medicaid, wouldn't even talk to him afterward?

[karibear]

Originally Posted by Goodpasture

Precisely. Annemieke had cancer two years ago. She cannot get private insurance at any price. If something come up that she cannot piggyback on her GOVERNMENT Sooner Care Plan for her cancer, she does without.

The point is not "how bad are the current government alternatives" or "how bad is the proposed plan" but "what is the alternative to some sort of government mandated or sponsored plan."

The current system is badly broken and expensive. Because it is focused on profits it is DESIGNED to provide NO service to sick people, and expensive service to those well enough to not really need it.

We HAVE to make health care delivery a NO-PROFIT system. Profits are bad in this situation. Making people healthy is the goal, not corporate bonuses and shareholder confidence. And employer provided health care has made us non-competitive in the industrialized world.

It has got to change, and any change except for "refining" the status quo is essential. refining the status quo is leaving it profit based, and that is what is killing us (literally) now.

I have family members in the same situation, not because of cancer, but other chronic and debilitating illnesses. I also know people who are afraid to see a doctor no matter how worried they are about what they might have, because they are afraid if they are right, it will become a pre-existing condition, and they'll be denied coverage at any level by any health insurance plan.

I also know some people who have their fingers crossed hoping this bill as it stands will pass, because it's so awful they think it will cause a revolt of the American people and a real restructuring of the health care system.