[Goodpasture]

If it means I can get some sort of affordable health care I'm all for it. And I have no problem with an end of life consultation. I know what I want.....do NOT resuscitate.....simple interview.

[karibear]

Originally Posted by Synopsis

It was crafted by the Democrats in the House (Waxman, Rangel, Miller, Stark, Pallone, and Andrews) Matti.

I can't wait until I'm 70 and get to have my first "end of life consultation." The thought of being forced to go to the doctor and have them talk to me about my "options" as they deem I am nearing the end of my life thrills me to no end. And there are provisions where medical professionals will be "trained" on what constitutes life saving treatment and whether or not it should be administered. In short, the lower your chances of survival, these government trained medical professionals will need to weigh the options of providing you life saving treatment against the cost of keeping you alive.

I'm not against health care reform but there are elements of this proposed bill that are scary. You can download a pdf of the entire proposed bill from the government website.

Kind of makes a person wonder just where Helen Keller and Stephen Hawking would have ended up if they'd depended on a bunch of bureaucrats to rule on their quality of lilfe, and was the cost of keeping them alive worth it?

[karibear]

Originally Posted by Goodpasture

If it means I can get some sort of affordable health care I'm all for it. And I have no problem with an end of life consultation. I know what I want.....do NOT resuscitate.....simple interview.

Affordable health care is a nice thought, a thought approaching fantasy. Affordable health care that doctors and clinics will accept, and have a co-pay that is reasonable, is an entirely different bowl of cherries. When you create a national health care plan with government oversight, federal employees from other branches of the government will transfer from one position to another. I don't know about you, but the thought of some bean counter from the IRS having anything whatsoever to say about any health insurance program that covers me gives me cold chills.

[Synopsis]

Originally Posted by karibear

Affordable health care is a nice thought, a thought approaching fantasy. Affordable health care that doctors and clinics will accept, and have a co-pay that is reasonable, is an entirely different bowl of cherries. When you create a national health care plan with government oversight, federal employees from other branches of the government will transfer from one position to another. I don't know about you, but the thought of some bean counter from the IRS having anything whatsoever to say about any health insurance program that covers me gives me cold chills.

Those are my thoughts. The government is not very efficient at running things. And believe me, I'm no fan of the insurance companies.

[Goodpasture]

Originally Posted by Synopsis

Those are my thoughts. The government is not very efficient at running things. And believe me, I'm no fan of the insurance companies.

The government seems to be running the Indian Health Service pretty good. My grand daughter was born at the IHS Hospital in Claremore a few weeks ago, this is the 6th grandchild born there, I took my son there when he needed orthoscopic surgery. My kids all had good dental care there. And if you don't mind waiting an extra hour for generic prescriptions, the free meds were good too. My ex got her eyes checked there without any problem. She had her dibetes treated there. How about we simply build more IHS hospitals and let everyone in?

It runs Medicare pretty good. Most of our parents and grandparents depend on it. They seem to be doing well under it. And the billions spent on insurance clerks today could be better spent on actual health care professionals instead of "call center consultants." How about we just open up medicare to the general population?

It runs the VA Hospitals pretty good. How about we open it up for everyone?

Men and women in prison get good health care. Maybe I should rob a bank so I can get comparable care.

Show me a collapse of any of the above institutions that has abrogated their charge the extent the insurance industry has.

[karibear]

Originally Posted by Goodpasture

The government seems to be running the Indian Health Service pretty good. My grand daughter was born at the IHS Hospital in Claremore a few weeks ago, this is the 6th grandchild born there, I took my son there when he needed orthoscopic surgery. My kids all had good dental care there. And if you don't mind waiting an extra hour for generic prescriptions, the free meds were good too. My ex got her eyes checked there without any problem. She had her dibetes treated there. How about we simply build more IHS hospitals and let everyone in?

It runs Medicare pretty good. Most of our parents and grandparents depend on it. They seem to be doing well under it. And the billions spent on insurance clerks today could be better spent on actual health care professionals instead of "call center consultants." How about we just open up medicare to the general population?

It runs the VA Hospitals pretty good. How about we open it up for everyone?

Men and women in prison get good health care. Maybe I should rob a bank so I can get comparable care.

Show me a collapse of any of the above institutions that has abrogated their charge the extent the insurance industry has.

Medicare and Medicaid aren't as good as you think they are. Medicare, for one, has a co-pay just like any health insurance plan, and they can and do arbitrarily decide whether something is necessary. If they decide against it - after the fact, naturally, and a lot of review - the patient is left to pay for the whole thing. I've been paying off one of those for at least the past 5 years now. Then there's Medicaid. It's great, in theory, but there's no law requiring any doctor or clinic to honor it. If there was, my husband would still be alive.

[Goodpasture]

Originally Posted by karibear

Medicare and Medicaid aren't as good as you think they are. Medicare, for one, has a co-pay just like any health insurance plan, and they can and do arbitrarily decide whether something is necessary. If they decide against it - after the fact, naturally, and a lot of review - the patient is left to pay for the whole thing. I've been paying off one of those for at least the past 5 years now. Then there's Medicaid. It's great, in theory, but there's no law requiring any doctor or clinic to honor it. If there was, my husband would still be alive.

So why didn't you use your private insurance?

[Synopsis]

Originally Posted by Goodpasture

The government seems to be running the Indian Health Service pretty good. My grand daughter was born at the IHS Hospital in Claremore a few weeks ago, this is the 6th grandchild born there, I took my son there when he needed orthoscopic surgery. My kids all had good dental care there. And if you don't mind waiting an extra hour for generic prescriptions, the free meds were good too. My ex got her eyes checked there without any problem. She had her dibetes treated there. How about we simply build more IHS hospitals and let everyone in?

It runs Medicare pretty good. Most of our parents and grandparents depend on it. They seem to be doing well under it. And the billions spent on insurance clerks today could be better spent on actual health care professionals instead of "call center consultants." How about we just open up medicare to the general population?

It runs the VA Hospitals pretty good. How about we open it up for everyone?

Men and women in prison get good health care. Maybe I should rob a bank so I can get comparable care.

Show me a collapse of any of the above institutions that has abrogated their charge the extent the insurance industry has.

GP, the Indian Healthcare System, although under the government umbrella is administered by the various tribes. I know this for two reasons; having worked for one such tribe for three years and also having written several proposals that went into very specific detail about how the tribes run those healthcare facilities. If anything, we should turn things around and let the Indian Nations run our healthcare system; they seem to know how to better than the federal government.

Also, the VA is a very poorly run organization and many vets only go there as a last resort. They are understaffed and the facilities in many places are falling apart.

Feds see wider woes in VA's cancer errors | Philadelphia Inquirer | 06/21/2009 (http://www.philly.com/inquirer/health_science/daily/20090621_Feds_see_wider_woes_in_VA_s_cancer_errors .html - broken link)

VA looking into 9 deaths<br> Senator briefed on hospital's woes - Chicago Tribune

Marion Illinois woes spur VA to widen probe

Veterans affected by VA hospital errors to file claims : Veterans Today - News for U.S. Military Veterans Jobs, VA Benefits, Home Loans, Hospitals & Administration

Miami Veterans Hospital Flooded With Calls From Patients Exposed To Hepatitis, HIV

As for medicare, It is racked with fraud and waste.

www.aacog.com/.../ (http://www.aacog.com/.../ - broken link)Fraud%20and%20Abuse%20in%20Medicare.pps

http://www.allbusiness.com/medicare-fraud/3265007-1.html (broken link)

http://www.taf.org/FCA-2006report.pdf

Medicare Fraud Statistics, Option 1 Health Insurance

As I said, I'm all for doing something with the healthcare system, but letting the gubment run everything as suggested in the present proposal would be a mistake. There are several things that could be done to bring down the cost of healthcare. Tort reform for medical malpractice for one, as they have done here in Texas to limit the amount of payouts from malpractice. Yes, malpractice happens but these ambulence chasing lawyers need to be reigned in. Doctors are literally going out of business because the huge burden that medical malpractice places on their ability to earn a living. There are other suggestions that I have as well, which I will post later.

[Goodpasture]

Are you now saying that the various tribes administering the IHS do not constitute a form of government?

and many vets only go there as a last resort.

How many millions of Americans don't have a last resort? Their last resort is ER followed by bankruptcy. I have strict instructions to my family. If I collapse wait till I am dead before you call an ambulance. I do not want to spend my final days worrying about bankrupting my estate (such as it is). And if the billions of administration money that insurance companies pay out along with shareholder dividends and corporate bonuses went into the VA, it would have a lot of better facilities and staff.

[colleeng47]

I think pretty much everyone agrees that something has to be done about health care in the US. Millions of people going without basic medical care because they have no insurance is totally unacceptable in a country where politicians, CEOs, celebrities and sports "stars" flaunt their wealth and lifestyle for everyone to see.

I'm no socialist, but the gap between the "average joe" and the guys/gals at the top has widen so much that the situation cannot truly continue. Take on of our own on this forum. Out of work, out of money, soon to be out of home and hearth. And this while those at the top are throwing expensive parties, flying on private jets, buying and selling multi-million dollar houses and taking huge bonuses. Sorry, folks, that simply cannot continue.

I'm on the fence as to what should be done about health care myself. I haven't seen anything proposed yet that I think will solve the major problems. I just wish the president wasn't in such a rush to get this through.