[Griffis]

Originally Posted by johnspecial

Make sure you check out Southeastern OK. You may find yourself a new getaway.

I really like that area. I've spent some significant time in Broken Bow and checking out that region.

I think Oklahoma has quite a good deal of geographical diversity. Even though the large center part of the state is pretty flat (though it has its own charms) the Eastern and Western edges of Oklahoma has some serious beauty. The Wichitas over to the West, and the Black Mesa, and the rolling, lush Ozark foorthills to the East.

Originally Posted by StillwaterTownie

I think it's just a matter of time, probably no more than 10 years from now, when same sex marriage will be legal in Oklahoma. It largely reflects how political developments and cultural changes in the mid section of the country usually lag the coasts. Surely back during the 1990s, plenty of people thought Oklahoma would never legalize lotteries, casinos and tattoos simply because it was in the bible belt. But it's happened.

It may take more than 10 years here, but I expect that within a decade same sex marriage and legal pot will be more common than not on a state-by-state basis. And I hope that's the case (even though I'm neither gay nor a potsmoker anymore.)

There really is no reason to oppose same sex marriage that doesn't stem from ignorance, bigotry, fear, or some combination of those three things. Not a one.

To preclude consensual, adult couples from marrying based solely on their gender is the very definition of bigotry and discrimination.

Not too many decades back, interracial marriages were also outlawed in the US. Given the time and opportunity, Americans usually will eventually come around and make the right decisions.

[johnspecial]

Originally Posted by StillwaterTownie

I bet the only time many Oklahomans who moved out of Oklahoma but later moved back was during the Great Depression. Many Oklahomans who moved to California during that time didn't like how they were mistreated as job stealing outsiders and so moved back.

Not selling wine in grocery stores has everything to do with liquor store owners fearing losing business from changing to doing it that way.

It's hard for me to think of anyone who moved out of Oklahoma but later came back. Oklahomans who moved to California love the mild weather and scenery too much to even remotely think of moving back. And they may very well have a decent paying job that can't be had in Oklahoma.

I think it's just a matter of time, probably no more than 10 years from now, when same sex marriage will be legal in Oklahoma. It largely reflects how political developments and cultural changes in the mid section of the country usually lag the coasts. Surely back during the 1990s, plenty of people thought Oklahoma would never legalize lotteries, casinos and tattoos simply because it was in the bible belt. But it's happened.

LOL you keep hoping a praying Pal. Even states on the coast will never adopt the liberal agenda...Ever. Lotteries are not in the realm of gay marriage. In ten years, this country will just be more divided. The further left the blue states go, the more hardcore the red states become. You can look to our sister state of Alabama to see where our culture is headed. I have no idea what you are talking about regarding the depression and whatnot. California gave Texas 70k new residents just last year.

[Griffis]

Originally Posted by johnspecial

Even states on the coast will never adopt the liberal agenda...

So, apparently your assertion is that the "liberal agenda" = equal rights and freedom for aduts to engage in most activities they want (as long as they don't impinge on the rights of others) with as little government intrustion or intervention as possible.

Count me in!

This certainly is NOT the stance of the Republican Party of the past 4 or 5 decades...

[johnspecial]

Originally Posted by Griffis

So, apparently your assertion is that the "liberal agenda" = equal rights and freedom for aduts to engage in most activities they want (as long as they don't impinge on the rights of others) with as little government intrustion or intervention as possible.

Count me in!

This certainly is NOT the stance of the Republican Party of the past 4 or 5 decades...

I think we have bigger fish to fry. Civil unions are already legal in many places in the US. Anything further, take it up with the Church. It's not the state's responsibility to transform or alter a religious union.

For your argument to hold true, the left would need to be making inroads. Oklahoma just keeps getting redder and redder.

[Griffis]

Originally Posted by johnspecial

I think we have bigger fish to fry. Civil unions are already legal in many places in the US. Anything further, take it up with the Church. It's not the state's responsibility to transform or alter a religious union.

Civil unions are not marriages, nor do they come at all with the same legal rights and privileges as a marriage.

And, of course, in case you weren't aware, marriages are not the sole province of churches. It is simply a significant number of churches and religious people who are attempting to legislate morality and promote discrimination and bigotry. Not that this is surprising.

For your argument to hold true, the left would need to be making inroads. Oklahoma just keeps getting redder and redder.

So I presume that you feel people who do not endorse bigotry and who embrace tolerance should just pull up stakes and move to some place where the "liberal agenda" is in full swing?

[johnspecial]

Originally Posted by Griffis

Civil unions are not marriages, nor do they come at all with the same legal rights and privileges as a marriage.

And, of course, in case you weren't aware, marriages are not the sole province of churches. It is simply a significant number of churches and religious people who are attempting to legislate morality and promote discrimination and bigotry. Not that this is surprising.



So I presume that you feel people who do not endorse bigotry and who embrace tolerance should just pull up stakes and move to some place where the "liberal agenda" is in full swing?

No, I would suggest your idea of what conservatism is all about has been tainted.

[_redbird_]

Originally Posted by johnspecial

Then you have this clueless Oklahoman. "Hey y'all. Everyone should move here. We have zero traffic!!!"

Whatever! I have never seen anyone on these OK threads say that.

A lot of people in CA came from OK and Arkansas back in the day. Now they are returning. If you want to post hateful blame game politics, please go to the P&OC threads. Arizona sounds like it would be a good fit for you.

[Griffis]

Originally Posted by johnspecial

No, I would suggest your idea of what conservatism is all about has been tainted.

It's only been tainted by the Republican Party.

Do you honestly feel the ideologies and politics of the GOP are the same now as they were in the 50s and 60s? If so, you need to bone up on some history.

[johnspecial]

Originally Posted by Griffis

It's only been tainted by the Republican Party.

Do you honestly feel the ideologies and politics of the GOP are the same now as they were in the 50s and 60s? If so, you need to bone up on some history.

No, it's been tainted by the tainted media you listen to. Of course not. Do you think the Democrats have the same ideologies and politics from the Klan days?

[StillwaterTownie]

Originally Posted by johnspecial

LOL you keep hoping a praying Pal. Even states on the coast will never adopt the liberal agenda...Ever. Lotteries are not in the realm of gay marriage. In ten years, this country will just be more divided. The further left the blue states go, the more hardcore the red states become. You can look to our sister state of Alabama to see where our culture is headed. I have no idea what you are talking about regarding the depression and whatnot. California gave Texas 70k new residents just last year.

I hope we learned something from the racial squabbles between blacks and whites during the 1960s to see if isn't worth it to be so divided. Desegregation did not destroy America. Neither will same sex marriage.

Arkansas barely voted against legalizing medical marijuana by 51 to 49%. So it appears Arkansas isn't doing a very good job at showing off how red it can be.

Alabama is about as backward as Mississippi. Why should Oklahoma aspire to be even more like those states assuming Oklahoma isn't with them in the race to be the bottom state?