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Old 07-13-2010, 09:19 AM
 
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He's just your average left wing hipster... They are the ones who scream the loudest, but nobody but other like minded listen.
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Old 07-13-2010, 11:30 AM
 
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Originally Posted by texas_dave11 View Post
He's just your average left wing hipster... They are the ones who scream the loudest, but nobody but other like minded listen.
True, but historically they've been right on almost all issues, and eventually their thinking and influence become mainstream.
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Old 07-13-2010, 11:47 AM
 
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Originally Posted by smithy77 View Post
True, but historically they've been right on almost all issues, and eventually their thinking and influence become mainstream.
I don't think making special rules, accomodations, and giving monetary handouts for all people of color will ever become mainstream. I'd like to think the average American is evolved and more intelligent than that. (I suppose the latter of the 3 has become mainstream, I just hope the general public knows when to cut the cord)

Keep up the good fight, however. Oh yeah, and keep on working hard for all those who refuse to. ; )
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Old 07-13-2010, 12:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by texas_dave11 View Post
I don't think making special rules, accomodations, and giving monetary handouts for all people of color will ever become mainstream. I'd like to think the average American is evolved and more intelligent than that. (I suppose the latter of the 3 has become mainstream, I just hope the general public knows when to cut the cord)

Keep up the good fight, however. Oh yeah, and keep on working hard for all those who refuse to. ; )
Like most conservatives, you're good at the "straw man" argument. I don't know anyone on the left who is in favor of "special rules" or "monetary handouts for all people of color" (we won't talk about farm price supports). I think the average American is far more fair minded and less xenophobic than the right-of-center attitudes that prevail in places like Fremont and most of Texas (I lived in Tx for 4 years, so I have a little cred there).

Your posts are full of talking points and slogans right out of Fox and talk radio ("keep on working hard for those who refuse to"). Sounds clever, but it is an empty and pointless way to argue. I live in a city that has a huge population of immigrants from all over the world (DC). Most of them work their as$es off----many working 2 jobs. Ironically, as a manager/boss, I've noticed over the years that my native born American workers have been the laziest and least reliable employees, always calling in sick and having "emergencies".

Last edited by smithy77; 07-13-2010 at 12:26 PM..
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Old 07-13-2010, 12:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by smithy77 View Post
Like most conservatives, you're good at the "straw man" argument. I don't know anyone on the left who is in favor of "special rules" or "monetary handouts for all people of color" (we won't talk about farm price supports). I think the average American is far more fair minded and less xenophobic than the right-of-center attitudes that prevail in places like Fremont and most of Texas (I lived in Tx for 4 years, so I have a little cred there).
Frequent legislation would prove you otherwise. You should probably know for the sake of this argument, I am very centralized politically. Very pro gay marriage, choice, etc. Also, I apologize for my name, I am not from Texas, but I am from Omaha. I just happen to enjoy visiting Texas.

Anyway, you have proved my point. You obviously being strongly left of center, see your general political position as ideal for our society. Those right of center find their stance very much the same.

See the irony there? Perhaps if more people would sit more towards the middle this country wouldn't be in such divided gridlock.

Further, I will restate my postion on the Fremont law. While I do feel it may have been poorly written and the timing could have been much sooner, I understand why local and state agencies are taking action.

If there is anything any fair-minded person could take away from the federal government, this administration and those prior, is that they are refusing to enforce existing immigration laws nor are they intent on securing the border.

The feds scream against having a "patchwork" of immigration laws throughout the US, as well as suggesting state law cannot supersede federal law, all the while they sit back on their lazy fat asses and let these problems fester.

Fremont has every right in the world to demand that renters and workers prove their citizenship status, just as my finance company has every right to demand I carry full coverage on my vehicle while they hold my title.
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Old 07-13-2010, 12:49 PM
 
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Default Welcome to Calcutta

Let's presume that Fremont's law were federal law. Do you want 12 million homeless people living on the streets and in the parks and in tent cities? Do you think these people have the resources and the wherewithal to just carry on with their lives normally? The law sucks, pure and simple. Carrying it out to its logical conclusion would be a logistical nightmare for any city. Who do you think would pick up the tab for caring for 12 million homeless/jobless people? Even a pragmatic conservative would have to scratch his head over that one.
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Old 07-13-2010, 01:01 PM
 
143 posts, read 87,241 times
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Originally Posted by smithy77 View Post
Let's presume that Fremont's law were federal law. Do you want 12 million homeless people living on the streets and in the parks and in tent cities? Do you think these people have the resources and the wherewithal to just carry on with their lives normally? The law sucks, pure and simple. Carrying it out to its logical conclusion would be a logistical nightmare for any city. Who do you think would pick up the tab for caring for 12 million homeless/jobless people? Even a pragmatic conservative would have to scratch his head over that one.
Which is why I said it was poorly written and came far too late, as many families have settled in and started a new life. Perhaps I should have said "poorly conceived". Either way, I understand why they passed the law, however, I'm not sure it's morally right, nor is it logistically feasible on a national level.

Back to my original point, while congress sits in gridlock, neither amnesty, worker programs, nor deportation can take place. Because of that, you will see a patchwork of laws around the country, and because of that, you will see our court systems congested and our federal government taking action against states and cities rather than action toward immigration reform.
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Old 07-13-2010, 01:14 PM
 
1,220 posts, read 2,126,479 times
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Originally Posted by texas_dave11 View Post
Which is why I said it was poorly written and came far too late, as many families have settled in and started a new life. Perhaps I should have said "poorly conceived". Either way, I understand why they passed the law, however, I'm not sure it's morally right, nor is it logistically feasible on a national level.

Back to my original point, while congress sits in gridlock, neither amnesty, worker programs, nor deportation can take place. Because of that, you will see a patchwork of laws around the country, and because of that, you will see our court systems congested and our federal government taking action against states and cities rather than action toward immigration reform.
Immigration reform is working its way through Congress as we speak. Amnesty will happen---it already has twice in the last 30 years (once during the Reagan administration). I predicted the shift in attitudes about immigrants as soon as the economy tanked. Bad economies tend to bring out the hatred in people, and I wondered who would be the target of the latest downturn---it's so predictable. I guess we don't need the cheap labor anymore, but it seems like the conservative movement always needs an enemy/whipping boy to drum up support for the cause---being anti-gay, anti-black, anti-communist or anti-whatever just wasn't working anymore.
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Old 07-13-2010, 01:25 PM
 
143 posts, read 87,241 times
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Originally Posted by smithy77 View Post
Immigration reform is working its way through Congress as we speak. Amnesty will happen---it already has twice in the last 30 years (once during the Reagan administration). I predicted the shift in attitudes about immigrants as soon as the economy tanked. Bad economies tend to bring out the hatred in people, and I wondered who would be the target of the latest downturn---it's so predictable. I guess we don't need the cheap labor anymore,
The reform bill is a mess and is nothing more than a compilation of democrat input and would take a minimal congressional approval for presidential executive decision to take place. Congress will not pass the bill on a vote.

That will crash and burn just as the healthcare will crash and burn. It takes both sides for such bills. I'm sure the left is eager to grant amnesty prior to midterm elections as they will need the votes, of course that won't happen, though.

Financial reform is probably the only major reform which will remain in tact, in some form.


Quote:
Originally Posted by smithy77 View Post
but it seems like the conservative movement always needs an enemy/whipping boy to drum up support for the cause---being anti-gay, anti-black, anti-communist or anti-whatever just wasn't working anymore.
And you haven't noticed the same pattern with the left? They have their own list of "whipping boys". Their pride and joys... "The Racist Right" "Bush's Fault" amoung others...
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Old 07-13-2010, 02:16 PM
 
1,220 posts, read 2,126,479 times
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Originally Posted by texas_dave11 View Post
The reform bill is a mess and is nothing more than a compilation of democrat input and would take a minimal congressional approval for presidential executive decision to take place. Congress will not pass the bill on a vote.

That will crash and burn just as the healthcare will crash and burn. It takes both sides for such bills. I'm sure the left is eager to grant amnesty prior to midterm elections as they will need the votes, of course that won't happen, though.

Financial reform is probably the only major reform which will remain in tact, in some form.



And you haven't noticed the same pattern with the left? They have their own list of "whipping boys". Their pride and joys... "The Racist Right" "Bush's Fault" amoung others...
You are absolutely right, but the whipping-boys of the left tend to be the rich and the all-too-powerful (oil companies, Wall Street investment bankers). I would much rather side with an ideology that defends the powerless and disenfranchised than one that defends oil companies, insurance companies, Wall Street, racists, homophobes, religious extremists, xenophobes---or has to explain the likes of Sarah Palin, Sharon Angle, Rand Paul, George Bush, Congressmen Joe Barton and Steven King. I wouldn't know how to begin to defend these people. I don't think history will treat them well.
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