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Old 06-15-2011, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Omaha Nebraska and dreamland when I am sleeping
3,096 posts, read 6,458,287 times
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btw: Isaiah 53 and Micah 5:2 and Isaiah 9:6 all mention JESUS (the Jewish Messiah) in the OT.

care to explain that away or is the OT and NT just 2 old books that copied from each other

 
Old 06-15-2011, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Midtown Omaha
1,225 posts, read 1,810,535 times
Reputation: 546
I have and I would hardly say he proved anything. He laid down some sound arguments and many of them I agree with. His main arguing point is that the gospels as they are written are not fiction, but he never mentions the countless revisions and translations that have changed the happenings of the bible. Greenleaf has also been refuted by Christian advocates as well.

The Gospels as they were originally written are historical yes, but the original authors wouldn't recognize their works today.

And I watched the Case for Christ on Netflix a while back, but didn't find it to be a quality work. If he would have more than one viewpoint of the people he interviewed. The only people that were interviewed already agreed with Strobel's views. He also uses the bible as evidence of what happened in the bible. If the bible is what is in question he needed to find other evidence to support his claim. That is hardly a way to "prove" anything when everyone involved already thought it to be true.
 
Old 06-15-2011, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Omaha Nebraska and dreamland when I am sleeping
3,096 posts, read 6,458,287 times
Reputation: 524
iamjacob, why do you think considering Countryside Community Church of Omaha Nebraska and First Central Congreagational Church of Omaha

both claim to have many views on things (i.e. open-minded and progressive christians) only will allow Ehrman's stuff to be peddled as books to read , yet wont at the same time allow Lee Strobel's books to be promoted or suggested as reading material


isnt that a little close-minded for these 2 progressive churches.

or is Countryside Community Church of Omaha Nebraska and First Central Congreagational Church of Omaha only allowed to have one opinion on things such as whether the NT is historical
 
Old 06-15-2011, 12:08 PM
 
Location: Midtown Omaha
1,225 posts, read 1,810,535 times
Reputation: 546
I don't know much about these "radical" churches. I think religion is radical at its core, but it is terribly interesting to me. Hence the reading and researching of those few guys you mentioned.

I agree that it is closed minded to limit your reading to only one perspective, but I just have a hard time jumping on the religion bandwagon. I went to catholic school for 12 years and was always thought to love and care for even gone we are modeled after god blah blah blah. Then catholics call homosexuals sinners and are doomed to hell(back to the topic at hand) and that sat wrong with me. If religion helps people to live their life better than good for them, but I can't get behind such a hypocritical institution. That is why I think this apology is a great thing.
 
Old 06-15-2011, 01:33 PM
 
6,486 posts, read 5,667,266 times
Reputation: 1272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosco55David View Post
To "counter the argument" would require that you actually had one to begin with and not this pain inducing level of logical failure that you keep trotting out. BUT since you want to go down that road, I'll play.



Passing a law that only recognizes the marriage between same sex couples satisfies all those of those definitions for discrimination.
How so? Same gender couples have never been able to get married.
Quote:
Consider your argument countered.
No. I won't.
Quote:
Really?!?

(we'll come back to that one by the way)

http://www.city-data.com/forum/15560316-post86.html

http://www.city-data.com/forum/19077356-post69.html

The next time you try to bull**** someone, you might not do it to someone smart enough to work the search feature on a VBulletin forum. And believe me, we are absolute going to go down the road of shining the spotlight on the whack ass philosophies you Calvinists believe in.
I'm a Christian. The title "Calvinist" means that I agree with Calvin on some aspects of theological truths. I am not a devout follower of Calvin in many areas, nor do I consider him to have been perfect. I'm sorry if you consider that to be somehow dishonest.

If you'd like to debate predestination and election, knock yourself out. I'd be happy to discuss that with you.


Quote:
Last time I checked same sex marriage = homosexuality.
So 2 heteros couldn't get married?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HandBanana View Post
Why shouldnt it?
Because we don't pass laws changing stuff like that because a small minority wants it?
Quote:
And once more, the burden of proof is on you, not me to provide evidence for your assertion that there are deities.
Do a google search on the Cosmological Argument. The Transcendental Argument is another. Honestly...there is plenty of proof if you care to look at it. Your presuppositions won't let you.
Quote:
I dont feel like hashing up that old discussion again and it never gets anyone anywhere anyway, but in absence of evidence for supernatural claims I am absolutely allowed to call them out as superstitious nonsense because they plainly are. The natural world and its laws shouldnt be governed by stunted interpretations of the imagined intentions of invisible sky buddies. And I dont hate the religious. I also don't coddle their delusions.
I honestly doubt there is any evidence that you would consider.
 
Old 06-15-2011, 03:20 PM
 
Location: Nebraska
4,230 posts, read 7,237,775 times
Reputation: 6679
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omahahonors View Post
As a gay person I am shocked by this gesture. Although the apology was not required, the actual gesture really has warmed by heart considerably. It's great to know that I have church options that are willing to embrace my god-given nature.

Ministers apologize to gays - Omaha.com

Dozens of Omaha-area Christian ministers are reaching out to the gay community by signing a proclamation that includes an apology to the gay community.
The Rev. Eric Elnes, minister at Countryside Community Church, said that more than 100 ordained Christian ministers have signed the proclamation, including leaders from Lutheran, Episcopalian, United Church of Christ, Methodist and Presbyterian churches.
The proclamation calls for an end to religious and civil discrimination based on sexual orientation.
Area ministers will publicly unveil a proclamation Wednesday evening at the Bob Kerrey Pedestrian Bridge in Omaha.
Elnes said the proclamation was created because he and others “were just fed up with the popular notion that the Christian point of view is anti-gay.”
************************************************** *****
I am not sure just what message these ministers are trying to send.
Is it " God is the ultimate Judge. Come to our church and we will NEVER tell you that God disapproves of your lifestyle."?

If that is the message and you end up spending eternity in Hell because GOD does not approve of Homosexual acts have these "tolerant" ministers done you a favor?

The REAL question is: Does God approve of Homosexual behavior?
Galatians 5:19 19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. NIV


Sexual immorality is listed as one of the conditions that will prevent you from inheriting the Kingdom of God. If you study both the Old and New Testaments I believe you will find several references as to what God sees as sexual immorality. All sins except blaspheming the Holy Spirit can be forgiven IF you follow the conditions laid out in the New Testament.

Do you want to tell God on judgment day that he is a bigot if he does not approve of your Homosexual lifestyle?

You might want to think it over very carefully while you still have the chance.

GL2
 
Old 06-15-2011, 03:55 PM
 
138 posts, read 218,240 times
Reputation: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunluvver2 View Post


Do you want to tell God on judgment day that he is a bigot if he does not approve of your Homosexual lifestyle?

You might want to think it over very carefully while you still have the chance.

GL2
Maybe want to consider Zeus' feelings as well.
Odin also.
 
Old 06-15-2011, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Omaha Nebraska and dreamland when I am sleeping
3,096 posts, read 6,458,287 times
Reputation: 524
gun:

considering Eric Elnes and Counrtyside also openly hate christians who take John 14:6 to be literal.


Countryside is a Univeraslist peddling church (they believe many ways to heaven) and believe JESUS was "intolerant" for what is said on John 14:6



I think this is more about Eric pushing his far left views and demanding christians accepted his poltically ideology more than anything. he is a Jim Wallis for Omaha if you want to best describe it.


considering Eric is more a politcal activist than a preacher, that would explain his obsession with gay marriage, abortion, pushing universalism on christians, etc.
 
Old 06-15-2011, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Midtown Omaha
1,225 posts, read 1,810,535 times
Reputation: 546
God is the definition of a bigot if he judges a person over their sexual orientation instead of their character. Why would anyone want to be "saved" by a god that hates one of his creations for something they are born with?

Christians decide to pick and chose which part of the bible to follow. And in the future the history students will look back at this time period and cringe when they see how the church acted towards homosexuals.
 
Old 06-15-2011, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Omaha Nebraska and dreamland when I am sleeping
3,096 posts, read 6,458,287 times
Reputation: 524
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamjacobm View Post
Christians decide to pick and chose which part of the bible to follow. And in the future the history students will look back at this time period and cringe when they see how the church acted towards homosexuals.

you maybe right.

btw speaking of picking and choosing verses

why does Countryside and First United Methodist of Omaha hate JESUS for what he said in John 14:6


both churches believe there are many ways to heaven, despite what John 14:6 says

Jesus answered, I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.


if you are saying christians pick and choose verses, how come progressive churches in omaha like

Countryside and First United Methodist of Omaha hate JESUS for what he said in John 14:6
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