[DentalFloss]

Originally Posted by Calvinist

God has given them to us. Morality comes from God--including our values of do not murder, do not steal, etc.

At the risk of yet again being ignored...

I can make a logical, reasonable, non-theological case for why murder, stealing, etc are immoral. I do not need to reference any holy book, quote any god, or resort to any metaphysical reasoning whatsoever.

Not only can I do that, my logic and reasoning would likely be agreed to by 99%+ of the population, including you.

I would like to see your secular case for declaring homosexuality immoral please. Or if you cannot come up with one, please at least man up and have the stones to admit it.

[Bosco55David]

Originally Posted by dentalfloss

i would like to see your secular case for declaring homosexuality immoral please. Or if you cannot come up with one, please at least man up and have the stones to admit it.

+1

[Calvinist]

Originally Posted by DentalFloss

At the risk of yet again being ignored...

I can make a logical, reasonable, non-theological case for why murder, stealing, etc are immoral. I do not need to reference any holy book, quote any god, or resort to any metaphysical reasoning whatsoever.

How so? Give me the case.

Not only can I do that, my logic and reasoning would likely be agreed to by 99%+ of the population, including you.

I would like to see your secular case for declaring homosexuality immoral please. Or if you cannot come up with one, please at least man up and have the stones to admit it.

I don't have one. It's wrong because God said so. That's enough. That's the same reason murder, stealing, etc are immoral.

The fact that the 100 ministers that "apologized" aren't bright enough to realize that speaks volumes about them, and the churches they are in.

[Bosco55David]

Originally Posted by Calvinist

I don't have one. It's wrong because God said so. That's enough. That's the same reason murder, stealing, etc are immoral.

Then how do you explain various cultures, including those that predate the bible and/or those that do not worship the Judeo-Christian God, having moral codes, many of which prohibit the same things you claim come straight from God?

[DentalFloss]

Originally Posted by Calvinist

I guarantee that I could name something that you would consider to always be wrong. That sounds like an "absolute" to me.

I can name many things that were once always considered to be wrong that no longer are. Homosexuality is on that list, btw.

Yes, there are some acts that will almost certainly be considered wrong, by civilized society anyway. Others will change over time. We grow, we learn, we evolve. It is our purpose.

Exactly...it was a later ammendment which later incorrectly applied a precedent to all the states.

If the bill of rights does NOT extend to the states it may as well not exist. If Florida can violate your protection against unreasonable searches, and Tennessee can violate your right to keep and bear arms, and Colorado can force you to quarter national guard troops in your home, then the protections offered by the constitution are meaningless

It grants individual expression. I've never suggested we do more.

You have at least intimated, if not outright stated, that laws should be passed because your religion calls for it. Almost one third of Americans sadly still think that consensual homosexual activity itself, never mind gay marriage, ought be made illegal. I suspect you are amongst them. That anyone but the smallest fringe still thinks such a thing is downright disgusting, fortunately the trend is positive and I predict that number will be zero in the not too distant future.

[JustMe_T3K]

I don't care if you want to get married but I think
anal sex is wrong regardless who is doing it.

[ManOnTheMoon]

Originally Posted by Calvinist

How so? Give me the case.


I don't have one. It's wrong because God said so. That's enough. That's the same reason murder, stealing, etc are immoral.

The fact that the 100 ministers that "apologized" aren't bright enough to realize that speaks volumes about them, and the churches they are in.

If you admit that the only reasoning is religious, how do you justify it being made law? We are not a religious nation, our laws shouldn't reflect any interpretation of religion.

[DentalFloss]

Originally Posted by Calvinist

How so? Give me the case.

Tee it up and let the big dog eat.

Murder is immoral because it deprives an innocent person of their life.
Stealing is immoral because it unjustly deprives a person of their property.
Slavery is unjust because you own yourself and are entitled to market wages for your labor.
Assault is immoral because it results in grave injury.

Do I need to go on?

I don't have one. It's wrong because God said so. That's enough.

Cudos for admitting as much. Of course you don't have one, other than "god said so" there is no logical case to be made. That is insufficient reason for legislation in this country, and though there have been, and in some cases continue to be, laws based on that, every time they are challenged they are rightfully struck down as unconstitutional. To bad, so sad.

That's the same reason murder, stealing, etc are immoral.

As I clearly demonstrated above, that is most certainly not the case

[DentalFloss]

Originally Posted by JustMe_T3K

I don't care if you want to get married but I think
anal sex is wrong regardless who is doing it.

You are entitled to think that. So long as you use that belief to guide your life, and don't expect others to do so, especially under threat of incarceration, then be my guest.

[Calvinist]

Originally Posted by DentalFloss

You are entitled to think that. So long as you use that belief to guide your life, and don't expect others to do so, especially under threat of incarceration, then be my guest.

That sounds like you're judging him. You should be more tolerant.