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Old 01-05-2012, 07:07 PM
 
92 posts, read 187,531 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raphael07 View Post
We, however, are an actual city and not a sprawled out mess of hotels and bedroom communities. And monorails are incredibly expensive to begin with.
Outside of the strip, Vegas is as close to Omaha as any other city of similar size. It's definitely not full of bedroom communities, as most residents (I used to be one for a little while) do actually spend time in and around their community.

The problem with the monorail is it is, admittedly, poorly done. It's a partially finished project that moves people efficiently, albeit not particularly flashy (which is a consideration to tourists in Vegas).

How about LA as a comparison? Population doesn't compare, but it is a massive city where you would think public transit would be in high demand. But again, a lot of people have a lot of expendable income, and the public transit isn't used because people like the convenience of cars (although its becoming less convenient on those freeways). LA has a good bus system, but then again, so does Omaha for the most part.
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Old 01-05-2012, 07:26 PM
 
Location: Chicago
3,340 posts, read 9,671,864 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swarley55 View Post
Outside of the strip, Vegas is as close to Omaha as any other city of similar size. It's definitely not full of bedroom communities, as most residents (I used to be one for a little while) do actually spend time in and around their community.

The problem with the monorail is it is, admittedly, poorly done. It's a partially finished project that moves people efficiently, albeit not particularly flashy (which is a consideration to tourists in Vegas).

How about LA as a comparison? Population doesn't compare, but it is a massive city where you would think public transit would be in high demand. But again, a lot of people have a lot of expendable income, and the public transit isn't used because people like the convenience of cars (although its becoming less convenient on those freeways). LA has a good bus system, but then again, so does Omaha for the most part.
Thats also when you start to get into culture. I can counter LA with Chicago, or Minneapolis, or St. Louis, or Cleveland. And San Diego has a light rail system... with a daily ridership of 91,284. Light rail has been very successful in many Midwestern cities, so why not here?
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Old 01-05-2012, 08:53 PM
 
92 posts, read 187,531 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raphael07 View Post
Thats also when you start to get into culture. I can counter LA with Chicago, or Minneapolis, or St. Louis, or Cleveland. And San Diego has a light rail system... with a daily ridership of 91,284. Light rail has been very successful in many Midwestern cities, so why not here?
I haven't been to STL or Cleveland, but the difference between LA and Chicago is a couple of things:

1. Chicago was built around its elevated rail system. LA wasn't, its mass transit was added later, and Omaha would be much more similar to LA in that.

2. Chicago has a much greater downtown presence than LA does. LA has a downtown of course, but it isn't the mecca of the city where a very large percentage of the population travels to for work, and then leaves after work. Again, Omaha more closely relates to LA with this.

I love Omaha as much as everyone else who lives here, but Omaha is nowhere near the metro populations of those cities. And additionally, at least from my impression, all of those places of a large, (relatively) thriving downtown where large percentages of the population works. Omaha doesn't have that.
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Old 01-05-2012, 09:38 PM
 
Location: Midtown Omaha
1,224 posts, read 2,183,550 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swarley55 View Post
I haven't been to STL or Cleveland, but the difference between LA and Chicago is a couple of things:

1. Chicago was built around its elevated rail system. LA wasn't, its mass transit was added later, and Omaha would be much more similar to LA in that.

2. Chicago has a much greater downtown presence than LA does. LA has a downtown of course, but it isn't the mecca of the city where a very large percentage of the population travels to for work, and then leaves after work. Again, Omaha more closely relates to LA with this.

I love Omaha as much as everyone else who lives here, but Omaha is nowhere near the metro populations of those cities. And additionally, at least from my impression, all of those places of a large, (relatively) thriving downtown where large percentages of the population works. Omaha doesn't have that.
1. LA's future city will be build around its mass transit though. There were a million people in Chicago when the L was built, the city obviously wasn't growing around a mass transit system that wasn't there until they installed it. Would you prefer Omaha to wait until it is too late like LA or jump on mass transit early and be more similar to Chicago?

2. I would totally disagree with this. Omaha's business center and job center is downtown and midtown. 5 fortune 500 companies and the largest privately owned bank in the nation in a fairly small area would argue that point for me.

Again. Omaha how it currently is can function without mass transit, but Omaha will not always be like this. It is growing and changing.

The city needs to be proactive on the issue, not reactive.
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Old 01-05-2012, 10:35 PM
 
92 posts, read 187,531 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamjacobm View Post
1. LA's future city will be build around its mass transit though. There were a million people in Chicago when the L was built, the city obviously wasn't growing around a mass transit system that wasn't there until they installed it. Would you prefer Omaha to wait until it is too late like LA or jump on mass transit early and be more similar to Chicago?

2. I would totally disagree with this. Omaha's business center and job center is downtown and midtown. 5 fortune 500 companies and the largest privately owned bank in the nation in a fairly small area would argue that point for me.

Again. Omaha how it currently is can function without mass transit, but Omaha will not always be like this. It is growing and changing.

The city needs to be proactive on the issue, not reactive.
Yes, I have seen the proud "5 fortune 500 companies" argument many times. TD Ameritrade just built their headquarters out in Old Mill...not exactly a ringing endorsement for downtown.

Yes, Omaha has Fortune 500 companies, but they are relatively small in terms of being employers of large amounts of people.

Greater Omaha Economic Development Partnership

Only 2 of the 5 even show up in the top 10 of employers in Omaha. You'll also note from that link that only First National Bank and Union Pacific are members of the top 10 who are actually even located in downtown! Many of the employers of this size that would be in the dead center of downtown in major cities in skyscrapers are scattered in the minority in downtown/midtown and mostly all over the rest Omaha.

Omaha has chosen not to be a downtown/skyscraper type city somewhere in its past. Nothing wrong with it, just the way it is.
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Old 01-05-2012, 10:51 PM
 
Location: Middleburg
906 posts, read 1,807,181 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamjacobm View Post
Why can't the city invest in transportation to subsidize people living in downtown and midtown?
I don't have numbers to back this up, but I imagine the majority of property tax revenue does not come from people living downtown and midtown. Maybe someday it will, but right now it appears West Omahans are paying the city's bills.
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Old 01-06-2012, 07:59 AM
 
Location: Midtown Omaha
1,224 posts, read 2,183,550 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swarley55 View Post
Yes, I have seen the proud "5 fortune 500 companies" argument many times. TD Ameritrade just built their headquarters out in Old Mill...not exactly a ringing endorsement for downtown.

Yes, Omaha has Fortune 500 companies, but they are relatively small in terms of being employers of large amounts of people.

Greater Omaha Economic Development Partnership

Only 2 of the 5 even show up in the top 10 of employers in Omaha. You'll also note from that link that only First National Bank and Union Pacific are members of the top 10 who are actually even located in downtown! Many of the employers of this size that would be in the dead center of downtown in major cities in skyscrapers are scattered in the minority in downtown/midtown and mostly all over the rest Omaha.

Omaha has chosen not to be a downtown/skyscraper type city somewhere in its past. Nothing wrong with it, just the way it is.
Transit would not only go from TD Ameritrade to the Old Market as suggested by others. That would fail. The line would go from Midtown to Downtown.

I also highly disagree with your premise that a small minority work in the area. I counted 11 of our top 25 employers are located in a very narrow 2.5 mile strip between UNMC and Conagra.
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Old 01-06-2012, 08:10 AM
 
Location: Midtown Omaha
1,224 posts, read 2,183,550 times
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By the way this isn't some "Suburbs should die!" view from me. I think they have their place, but too many suburbs without a strong core would be really bad for Omaha.
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Old 01-06-2012, 09:00 AM
 
92 posts, read 187,531 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamjacobm View Post
By the way this isn't some "Suburbs should die!" view from me. I think they have their place, but too many suburbs without a strong core would be really bad for Omaha.
Additionally, I should mention that I really like our downtown. It's just not a place of very heavy traffic filled with workers that would sustain mass transit.

Of course we could build the mass transit, but that will never happen without the serious demand (the only place I ever hear about this demand is from 4 or 5 people on this message board). What about our local government suggests to you that they are willing to pay for infrastructure ahead of its time in order to support the future? I see absolutely nothing. West Dodge Express wasn't built until the population out there had exploded and it was in dire need.

I believe we would need about 500,000 more working people in the metro area, with at least 50% of these jobs located in the downtown/midtown area (i.e. a couple more skyscrapers to handle the office space) in order for the city to look at something like that. Those are just ballpark numbers of course.
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Old 01-06-2012, 01:34 PM
 
59 posts, read 126,569 times
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Does anybody have the numbers on the percentage of people living downtown/midtown throughout the years?

I don't know the statistics, but I'm sure that number has gone up significantly in the last 10-12 years. Many old buildings were converted to condos/apartments, and big developments brought more people downtown. Downtown isn't slowing down, either. We are all aware of the current developments happening downtown so I won't bother listing them all, but the demand to live in this area of town is obviously increasing. Not to mention what is happening just to the West in Midtown.

If the city can continue this momentum in downtown and midtown, I think Omaha (specifically the eastern section) will transform itself.

Streetcars and/or lightrail is tough. I think the demand could already be there with what we have in a small area (UNMC, Creighton, Midtown Crossing, Mutual, Kiewitt, UP, Conagra, Holland, Orpheum, Filmstreams, Rose Theater, Joslyn, Old Market, TD Stadium, the CLink, etc). The problem is that most people in Omaha are not acclimated to public transportation (which is sad considering how extensive our street car system used to be).

If Omaha randomly decided to build light rail tomorrow, I don't think it would be very successful right away. Omaha is car-centric for obvious reasons, and that mentality won't go away immediately. Omaha needs to encourage public transportation first, possibly by revamping the Metro entirely and show that public transportation is a viable resource.

I don't know. I'm thinking (typing?) out loud at this point.
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