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Old 01-05-2008, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Bellevue, Ne
23 posts, read 47,495 times
Reputation: 11

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Hundreds of social workers and law enforcement people paid by the taxpayers should have caught the Westroads killer years ago. Who do I see to get the $250,000 back that we wasted on him?
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Old 01-05-2008, 02:15 PM
 
Location: West Omaha
1,181 posts, read 2,771,914 times
Reputation: 454
Huh?? Are you going to ask for money back every time a drunk driver isn't arrested or a burglar isn't arrested?? The system isn't perfect. Maybe if we would spend more money on health care and the resources necessary to actually help people like this guy tragedies like this wouldn't happen. Besides, hindsight is 20/20. What were law enforcement suppose to do? Were they suppose to keep the guy locked up because "they think in 2007 he'll commit a mass murder." Tell us...what should have been done differently? What about the 1000's of people that law enforcement do effectively keep from harming society?? Are you going to give a bonus to all the police and social workers who contribute to avert similar disasters?
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Old 01-05-2008, 04:33 PM
 
711 posts, read 1,128,954 times
Reputation: 270
I would start with his so called parents.
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Old 01-05-2008, 04:40 PM
 
Location: Omaha, NE
1,119 posts, read 2,976,278 times
Reputation: 379
Default in society...

Society is an entity made up by our fore-fathers...
Society is a good thing as it allows us to access many resources and live
a lot longer than ever before..

We are born without a manual, however, society is ran on documents and the interpretation thereof...

If we are going to successfully run a whole species on special pieces of paper, then we need to not be so critical of each other and actually be more responsible in showing each other our potentials in life..

Otherwise the race to the top is always going to be the easiest for the people who's life has the path to least resistance.

We all are responsible for the betterment of each other, not just ourselves..
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Old 01-05-2008, 08:39 PM
 
Location: Nebraska
4,179 posts, read 5,678,662 times
Reputation: 9206
While I understand what you mean - How could anyone not see this coming? Why didn't they act? - the truth of law enforcement and psychiatry is that they have limits.

Should every kid who writes "I wish everyone in my school would die" be punished? Or helped? What if he's just having a bad day?

People normally progress in their crimes' severity, just as the mentally and emotionally handicapped progress in their downward spiral. Unfortunately, there are only so many corrections one can do legally. For the criminals - should we just incarcerate them all? Remember what they tried to do with "three strikes you're out", and the legal boondoggle that resulted from that... Criminals on their last 'strike' bargaining away their co-conspirators, turning into informants on everything and everyone, never paying the price of their crimes because they could tell just 'one more story' to raise the level of prosecutions on others. Three strikes didn't work, and has basically been abandoned. Prisons are overcrowded, and not with just the people who should be on death row - but with repeat offenders, Child abusers, drug abusers, robbers, thieves, frauds, con artists... the list goes on and on indefinitely.

What would be the smart thing to do? Make people who commit crimes that do not cause real physical harm to others work and pay back their victims? Put to death those who have killed more than one person? That might be the smart thing, but oh, the legalities of those firm and well-defined, simple solutions have twisted cops, judges, and prosecutors into knots!

For the mentally and emotionally handicapped, even the bi-polar - you can't confine them and force them to take their meds on a regular basis. The laws have screwed us up there too - most people know to use anything including drugs, alcohol, and liquor as an excuse. Some use 'society', their mom and dad, even twinkies and PMS! This means that those who have real mental problems get lumped in with everyone else - and there aren't enough doctors or treatment centers to help the truly sick, because so many con artists and self-excusers are filling up the beds. You can buy the pills on the Internet, off the TV, or 'go to your doctor and ask him to proscribe' to make you feel happy, make you feel self-confident, make you sleep or eat differently to make you feel better - when most people are just resorting to pills rather than to take responsibility for their own lives, choices, successes, and failures. "Mental Illness" without a real established cause is big bucks in this country, with every other person 'needing help' - and ensuring that those who truly do need it can't get it.

Please don't blame the wrong people for this kid... He should have been caught long before, by either the medical community or the judicial branches, but both have their hands firmly tied.
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Old 01-05-2008, 10:03 PM
 
Location: West Omaha
1,181 posts, read 2,771,914 times
Reputation: 454
The problem with demonizing law enforcement and the mental healthcare system because they did not stop Hawkins is that they aren't getting credit for all of the others just like Hawkins that were stopped.

I don't think there is anything in Hawkins past that would lead someone to believe he would commit a mass murder/suicide in a shopping mall. Yes, he was troubled and he had major major issues, but how many millions of kids between the age of 14 and 22 have similar problems that don't go out and kill 8 people.

We can't just lock people up for having mental problems. Hawkins was a ward of the state for some time, but at the age of 18 or 19 (can't remember the exact age) he was cut loose. He could be held as a minor because he was a ward of the state, which would be similar to a parent committing their minor child. You can't hold an adult just because they have problems with depression and some anger management issues.

My point is that law enforcement sees guys like this all of the time and they aren't murderers. Only in hindsight can these dots be connected.

Last edited by mattpoulsen; 01-05-2008 at 10:41 PM..
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Old 01-05-2008, 10:14 PM
 
Location: Omaha, NE
1,119 posts, read 2,976,278 times
Reputation: 379
Default I agree...

Demonizing people just doesn't work, all it does is create more anger and aminosity..

Society is an ever-changing theory that is always in practice..

We never had it completely right, we don't have it completely right, nor will we ever have it completely right.

Times change, and so must our response to it and to be realistic is to understand their will always be holes and people that slip through the cracks, however as a society we can be much more helpful even with criticism to be on the ever-going path - always being steered, but hopefully with our best intentions...

The toughest parts of life will always be there, our goal should be to minimize it, by realizing our own potential and while, to the best of our ability; to help everyone realize their own potential..
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Old 01-06-2008, 07:14 AM
 
Location: Omaha
1,137 posts, read 1,453,051 times
Reputation: 314
The reason behind this rampage was simple. This kid, who felt bad, and was on and off medication, had seen a lack of mass murders in recent days, and knew that this exact thing would happen. Every news station would focus on him. And even here we're essentialy glorifying it by continuing to discuss, which is something that we wouldn't be doing if this had been just another suicide. I think if we had ignored the killer in this incident, name and face wise, we might have done something positive here.
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Old 01-06-2008, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Omaha, Ne
884 posts, read 93,001 times
Reputation: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Adam29 View Post
The reason behind this rampage was simple. This kid, who felt bad, and was on and off medication, had seen a lack of mass murders in recent days, and knew that this exact thing would happen. Every news station would focus on him. And even here we're essentialy glorifying it by continuing to discuss, which is something that we wouldn't be doing if this had been just another suicide. I think if we had ignored the killer in this incident, name and face wise, we might have done something positive here.
Yep, and expect this to happen again as a direct result of Hawkins' media coverage.
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Old 01-07-2008, 01:48 PM
 
482 posts, read 1,633,700 times
Reputation: 176
Thank you Matt for taking a stand for both the Law Enforcement and Doctors who work hard to try to help people. They can only do so much and if the individual does not want help then there is nothing that can be done to help them. As a retired police officer I have seen this more than once and I always got mad when I thought that there was always something more that I could have done to prevent a serious crime. You get a positive rating from me.

2Adam29, I think that one of your points that he was on and off of his medication needs to be looked at. When I was his age individuals were not treated with drugs as they are today in the society of today. I don't know what they did, but I do know that drugs were the last thing that someone was given. Today drugs are given out like candy when maybe just taking the time to sit down with some of these individuals and listening to them would have been better. In about every incident like this that we read about you hear that they had been felt rejected by people around them and that they had very few friends. Plus the news media today floods us with what someone like him has done. The news is still running stories about this killer yet today. It is about enough so that more copy cats will not read about it and then go out to do something like this killer did. Either way good post I am giving you a positive rating as well.
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