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Old 11-10-2008, 07:48 PM
 
Location: Madison, WI
14,989 posts, read 19,749,833 times
Reputation: 7469
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stacy From Cali View Post
Are people in the midwest really so afraid of San Francisco? Pelosi is considered a moderate there.
I love visiting San Francisco, but would never live there. I feel more comfortable in smaller cities compared to big cities that have 100,000 people per square mile.
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Old 11-10-2008, 08:57 PM
 
Location: Chicago
3,298 posts, read 5,938,042 times
Reputation: 1106
This is why I love being an Independent, I don't see black or white, all of it to me is gray.
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Old 11-11-2008, 05:44 AM
 
4,669 posts, read 1,323,555 times
Reputation: 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by ehenningsen View Post
Some people live life in black and white, and as you can see kdbrich is already declaring Obama as a failure and has many labels for the guy, despite Obama hasn't even reached a week after winning the election..and yet knows absolutely nothing about him..

For the next 4 years, people like this guy (kdbrich) are going to be twice as politically agressive as they have been the last eight..

it is going to be even more annoying than it is now I promise! Despite it is getting old already...

What name have I called him? A socialist? Do you honestly dispute that? The fact that he hung around marxist professors and believed in the ideologies of karl marx? Or his economic policies that have him saying it's good to "spread the wealth around?

That's what socialism is. Nobody is saying the guy wants to conquer the US and run a red flag up the flagpole, but we are saying that he wants to push a socialist agenda and does not like capitalism. There's a reason this country is the #1 superpower--and it's not because our government provides everything for us.

He might be a good president--if he moves much farther right than he is. But he is very far left--and the people that got him elected are going to come calling, looking for favors. That's going to be bad for America. Honestly? I just can't see how the American people actually voted for him based on policy. His campaign was about entitlements and pop culture.

As for Nancy Pelosi--she doesn't set policy, but she is the one that you see on tv calling out the president whe doesn't do what she wants. And yes--we are afraid of her. She's much farther left than mainstream America.
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Old 11-11-2008, 06:26 AM
 
Location: Omaha
1,137 posts, read 1,391,734 times
Reputation: 313
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
What name have I called him? A socialist? Do you honestly dispute that? The fact that he hung around marxist professors and believed in the ideologies of karl marx? Or his economic policies that have him saying it's good to "spread the wealth around?

That's what socialism is. Nobody is saying the guy wants to conquer the US and run a red flag up the flagpole, but we are saying that he wants to push a socialist agenda and does not like capitalism. There's a reason this country is the #1 superpower--and it's not because our government provides everything for us.

He might be a good president--if he moves much farther right than he is. But he is very far left--and the people that got him elected are going to come calling, looking for favors. That's going to be bad for America. Honestly? I just can't see how the American people actually voted for him based on policy. His campaign was about entitlements and pop culture.

As for Nancy Pelosi--she doesn't set policy, but she is the one that you see on tv calling out the president whe doesn't do what she wants. And yes--we are afraid of her. She's much farther left than mainstream America.

Not a fan of Nancy Pelosi, for the record.

Everything I heard put McCain, the supposed conservative, at a point further into socialism than Obama. He wanted to buy up morgages, and believed in wall street bailouts as much as Obama. Meanwhile, Obama's supposed "Marxist" policies simply repeal the tax cuts on the wealthy, so that they aren't paying less than normal, and then tax cuts go in place for the group in our country that is having the most difficult time staying afloat. He's not handing companies over, or demanding people give their mansions to the homeless, he's just saying, go back to what you used to pay in the 90's, and it will greatly help those who need some relief.

Now if you were to try out this nifty little thing called "understanding" people might be more inclined to listen to you. You don't have to agree with his policies, but you can at the same time see the good in him too. There's got to be some part of his platform you like.
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Old 11-11-2008, 06:45 AM
 
4,669 posts, read 1,323,555 times
Reputation: 409
You do realize that something like 95% of the taxes in this country are paid by the top 50%, right And that included in some of Bush's tax cuts is also a 2% tax cut for the lower and middle class, I believe.

You also realize that his "tax cuts" that Obama is going to issue is really just a rebate...and that 40% of the people in America don't pay taxes now, right? It's been estimated that the number will be 49% after 2 years of obama.

What fundamental reason is there for the wealthy to pay a higher percentage of their income? I absolutely agree that they should pay their fair share...but I don't know how 40% is fair for them while 28% is fair for someone else.
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Old 11-11-2008, 06:46 AM
 
516 posts, read 871,017 times
Reputation: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
What name have I called him? A socialist? Do you honestly dispute that? The fact that he hung around marxist professors and believed in the ideologies of karl marx? Or his economic policies that have him saying it's good to "spread the wealth around?

That's what socialism is. Nobody is saying the guy wants to conquer the US and run a red flag up the flagpole, but we are saying that he wants to push a socialist agenda and does not like capitalism. There's a reason this country is the #1 superpower--and it's not because our government provides everything for us.
History lesson of the day:

First of all Marxism and Socialism are two entirely different ideologies.

Secondly, in my experience most professors are "marxist" in the sense that marxist class-based history, political thought, sociology, economics etc has dominated academia since the late 1960's. It is considered a legitimate school of thought among academics.

Thirdly, one of the central tenants of socialism is government control of industry/ private enterprise...which means one of the most socialist things that has happened in this country (since WWII) is the current economic bailout.

Finally the reason that America is currently a so-called 'superpower' has nothing to do with the fact we are a capitalist economy and everything to do with the fact we were the only ones left standing after WWII...and that we have a formidible military which the whole world is frightened of. Our military-industrial complex is also government-sponsored industry which makes it socialist. Therefore one could argue that it is the socialist elements of our country that make us formidible. Eisenhower warned us against having a military-industrial complex, and one reason was that it would have a negitive impact on the free market.
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Old 11-11-2008, 06:59 AM
 
4,669 posts, read 1,323,555 times
Reputation: 409
Are you comfortable with most college professors being Marxist?

I absolutely agree that the recent takeovers/bailouts by the government is socialist. We all thought it horrible when Russia nationalized their oil industry..but I'm not sure this is drastically different.

And yes--the US is a superpower because we were one of the few left standing after WWII. Along with Russia. The reason we are is capitalism, and the fact that Reagan flat out bankrupted the USSR in the cold war. I think we won despite the fact that the government controls our military-industrial complex. Private industry almost always makes a better product for less money.
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Old 11-11-2008, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Omaha
471 posts, read 719,769 times
Reputation: 176
If Pelosi and Obama are so far away from "mainstream" America, how in the world did either of them get elected? Answer me that KD.
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Old 11-11-2008, 07:50 AM
 
Location: Omaha, NE
1,119 posts, read 2,873,861 times
Reputation: 379
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
You do realize that something like 95% of the taxes in this country are paid by the top 50%, right And that included in some of Bush's tax cuts is also a 2% tax cut for the lower and middle class, I believe.

You also realize that his "tax cuts" that Obama is going to issue is really just a rebate...and that 40% of the people in America don't pay taxes now, right? It's been estimated that the number will be 49% after 2 years of obama.

What fundamental reason is there for the wealthy to pay a higher percentage of their income? I absolutely agree that they should pay their fair share...but I don't know how 40% is fair for them while 28% is fair for someone else.


That is true, they pay about 95% of the taxes...

They also make about 99.9% of the nations income, as this class includes millionaires and billionaires and not a single person in poverty...

Would you feel better that the bottom 50% paid the same amount of taxes as the top 50%?
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Old 11-11-2008, 07:54 AM
 
Location: midwest
5 posts, read 4,628 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
Are you comfortable with most college professors being Marxist?

I absolutely agree that the recent takeovers/bailouts by the government is socialist. We all thought it horrible when Russia nationalized their oil industry..but I'm not sure this is drastically different.

And yes--the US is a superpower because we were one of the few left standing after WWII. Along with Russia. The reason we are is capitalism, and the fact that Reagan flat out bankrupted the USSR in the cold war. I think we won despite the fact that the government controls our military-industrial complex. Private industry almost always makes a better product for less money.
Actually, our "private industry", if you want to call it that, has been gutting our economy for years. Why are we exporting millions of jobs to China/India? Our corporations are too greedy to sustain themselves, hence the BS bailout. Private industry didn't get us into space, which gave us great technology along the way. Think about that the next time you or a family member gets a CT scan or MRI.
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