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Old 01-12-2009, 05:50 AM
 
2,214 posts, read 1,720,620 times
Reputation: 371

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DTO Luv View Post
In other news 150 people gather at a vigil for the murdered Kwik Shop worker in south Omaha. I guess only 150 people in Omaha care about crime, murder, roberry, and gun violence. 900,000 people should have showed up so I guess robbery/murders aren't a big deal in Omaha. The numbers just aren't there.
Apples & oranges.

 
Old 01-12-2009, 05:52 AM
 
2,214 posts, read 1,720,620 times
Reputation: 371
Quote:
Originally Posted by smithy77 View Post
The simple fact is that, as far as I know, there's not one jurisdiction in the entire state of Nebraska that extends any legal protection for gay people. That alone speaks volumes. I'm not just talking about gay marriage issues, but basic civil rights protections that we all take for granted (employment, housing, inheritance rights for domestic partners, etc.). You don't realize how backward that looks to someone who lives in a city where these laws have been on the books since 1974. Before some of you start to complain about how unnecessary these laws are, I'd like to point out that discrimination does exist. People have recently been legally fired for being gay, kids are being thrown out of their homes after coming out to their parents (and many end up on the streets hustling), landlords can legally evict gay people (or refuse to rent to them), people are routinely beaten for being gay (a woman in the suburbs of San Francisco was just beaten senseless last week by a group of men for having a rainbow sticker on her car), and couples who've been together for decades have no inheritance rights or hospital visitation rights.

I know it sounds trite to say this but you really can't understand what it's like to be gay unless you are. I'm talking about everything from the 'big issues' to the subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) slights and hostilities we experience all the time, mostly from straight men. Just because you've never seen incidence of discrimination doesn't mean it's non-existent. If you need to educate yourselves on gay issues, there's plenty of literature out there. If you choose not to, I guess you're entitled to your own thoughts and opinions, but they lack the force of true knowledge and understanding, and hence are not very convincing.

I truly believe Omaha and Nebraska will eventually get there. It may be dragged, kicking and screaming, in to the 21st century, but it'll happen.
You guys keep making those outlandish claims, but you cannot cite any specific examples. The way you all talk, this kind of thing is happening on a daily basis in the metro area. But there's no evidence of it.

Honestly, I think we have a whole lot more perceptions going on than reality. But your suspicions and/or your feelings don't necessarily line up with facts - especially when you're looking for something, or somebody is a bit paranoid.

It's easy to make accusations. It's much harder to give them credibility.

Last edited by Filet Mignon; 01-12-2009 at 06:12 AM..
 
Old 01-12-2009, 06:19 AM
 
516 posts, read 1,210,049 times
Reputation: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Filet Mignon View Post
You guys keep making those outlandish claims, but you cannot cite any specific examples. The way you all talk, this kind of thing is happening on a daily basis in the metro area. But there's no evidence of it.

Honestly, I think we have a whole lot more perceptions going on than reality. But your suspicions and/or your feelings don't necessarily line up with facts - especially when you're looking for something, or somebody is a bit paranoid.

It's easy to make accusations. It's much harder to give them credibility.

According to Monster.com:

"According to a Harris Interactive poll cited by Lambda Legal, 23 percent of gay employees have been harassed at work, 12 percent have been denied promotions, and 9 percent were fired because of sexual orientation or gender identity."

Newsweek:
Fired For Being Gay | Newsweek Culture | Newsweek.com

MSNBC:
Employee Says He Was Fired For Being Gay - News- msnbc.com (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28581470/ - broken link)

There's lots more out there.
 
Old 01-12-2009, 06:41 AM
 
2,214 posts, read 1,720,620 times
Reputation: 371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stacy From Cali View Post
According to Monster.com:

"According to a Harris Interactive poll cited by Lambda Legal, 23 percent of gay employees have been harassed at work, 12 percent have been denied promotions, and 9 percent were fired because of sexual orientation or gender identity."

Newsweek:
Fired For Being Gay | Newsweek Culture | Newsweek.com

MSNBC:
Employee Says He Was Fired For Being Gay - News- msnbc.com (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28581470/ - broken link)

There's lots more out there.
Your first link is 6 years old, and is citing events that supposedly took place 15 years ago. It is irrelevant.

The second link talks about one guy who was fired from a Motel that changed ownership. It is in the realm of "allegation". Here's a quote from the article.
Quote:
"(He was fired) strictly because of his sexual orientation?” asked reporter Katina Rankin."I do believe that's a very fair assumption," asked Stoddard.
So there are all these horrific discriminatory things taking place daily in Omaha, now in 2009, but this is the best you can come up with?


So let's be honest about that Harris poll. "According to a Harris Interactive poll cited by Lambda Legal, 23 percent of gay employees claim that they have been harassed at work, 12 percent claim that they have been denied promotions, and 9 percent claim that they were fired because of sexual orientation or gender identity." You also have to be smart enough to look at who did this: Lambda Legal. That's like asking Al Sharpton if all white people are racists...

The fact that somebody believes something, or claims something, does not automatically mean it's true.


Further, you're operating under the assumption that there are NO homosexuals who should ever be reprimanded or fired because they're not doing their jobs adequately. But here's a heads-up... People get warned and/or fired regularly for poor job performance. And many times it has nothing to do with ANYTHING other than poor job performance. But I'd wager a fair bet that EVERY one of the people fired for poor job performance will claim they were discriminated against!
 
Old 01-12-2009, 08:15 AM
 
516 posts, read 1,210,049 times
Reputation: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Filet Mignon View Post
Your first link is 6 years old, and is citing events that supposedly took place 15 years ago. It is irrelevant.

The second link talks about one guy who was fired from a Motel that changed ownership. It is in the realm of "allegation". Here's a quote from the article. So there are all these horrific discriminatory things taking place daily in Omaha, now in 2009, but this is the best you can come up with?


So let's be honest about that Harris poll. "According to a Harris Interactive poll cited by Lambda Legal, 23 percent of gay employees claim that they have been harassed at work, 12 percent claim that they have been denied promotions, and 9 percent claim that they were fired because of sexual orientation or gender identity." You also have to be smart enough to look at who did this: Lambda Legal. That's like asking Al Sharpton if all white people are racists...

The fact that somebody believes something, or claims something, does not automatically mean it's true.


Further, you're operating under the assumption that there are NO homosexuals who should ever be reprimanded or fired because they're not doing their jobs adequately. But here's a heads-up... People get warned and/or fired regularly for poor job performance. And many times it has nothing to do with ANYTHING other than poor job performance. But I'd wager a fair bet that EVERY one of the people fired for poor job performance will claim they were discriminated against!
Well actually it was a Harris poll that was cited by Lambda Legal, not a Lambda Legal poll. The difference is more than just semantics.

So based on your logic the only way that something can be "proven" is that...what...God comes down from the sky and personally approves the message? Everything is subjective based upon the personal experience filter of the individual that experiences it. Everything. There is no such thing as truth.

Would you wager that every gay person is fired due to poor performance? Even when the boss says outright that the person was fired for being gay? Because then you are simply being obtuse.

Do some research please. The fact that laws do not exist in Nebraska to protect people from being fired based upon sexual preference is telling. As a Californian I thought these existed everywhere! Silly me. I am horrified enough by that, but I cannot speak about individual instances of discrimination personally, because I am not a member of the gay community.

Last edited by Stacy From Cali; 01-12-2009 at 08:16 AM.. Reason: Apparently this stupid board thinks ***** is a bad word.
 
Old 01-12-2009, 08:25 AM
 
2,214 posts, read 1,720,620 times
Reputation: 371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stacy From Cali View Post
Well actually it was a Harris poll that was cited by Lambda Legal, not a Lambda Legal poll. The difference is more than just semantics.

So based on your logic the only way that something can be "proven" is that...what...God comes down from the sky and personally approves the message? Everything is subjective based upon the personal experience filter of the individual that experiences it. Everything. There is no such thing as truth.

Would you wager that every gay person is fired due to poor performance? Even when the boss says outright that the person was fired for being gay? Because then you are simply being obtuse.

Do some research please. The fact that laws do not exist in Nebraska to protect people from being fired based upon sexual preference is telling. As a Californian I thought these existed everywhere! Silly me. I am horrified enough by that, but I cannot speak about individual instances of discrimination personally, because I am not a member of the gay community.
Provide some examples of gays being fired simply because they're gay. You've failed to do that, as has everyone else who has posted here in the last couple days.

You keep claiming there's all this discrimination and horrible hatred poured out against gays, but you fail to cite any actual instances - and what's more, the virtual non-existence of that Gay Protest on Saturday makes it pretty clear that the majority of homosexuals know that they're not being oppressed. If they were, they'd be DOING something about it.



And by the way, if you're a school teacher (as you claim), why are you posting here in the middle of the morning on a Monday? That too leads me to doubt the credibility of your stories...
 
Old 01-12-2009, 08:38 AM
 
516 posts, read 1,210,049 times
Reputation: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Filet Mignon View Post
Provide some examples of gays being fired simply because they're gay. You've failed to do that, as has everyone else who has posted here in the last couple days.

You keep claiming there's all this discrimination and horrible hatred poured out against gays, but you fail to cite any actual instances - and what's more, the virtual non-existence of that Gay Protest on Saturday makes it pretty clear that the majority of homosexuals know that they're not being oppressed. If they were, they'd be DOING something about it.



And by the way, if you're a school teacher (as you claim), why are you posting here in the middle of the morning on a Monday? That too leads me to doubt the credibility of your stories...

You are beginning to simply be insulting.
I have cited you examples but you choose not to believe them because they do not meet your criteria for "truth". The hotel example seems pretty concrete to me as his manager actually said we fired you because you are gay. But, alas...it is based on the word of the employee so by your standards it much not be true. Much like you disbelieve my concrete example of racism because you think I'm lying.

You may believe what you like. You are going to anyway.

As for teaching...you presented this in an insulting way but I will give you an answer nonetheless. I posted on a different topic that when I moved to Omaha there was not a single teaching job available in my field. Nothing I could even apply for. In fact finding a job in education in this town has proved to be very difficult. So I am not currently teaching at a high school...but as they say you can take the teacher out of the high school but not the high school outta the teacher! I taught for years before I moved here. I love/loved it and really hope to be able to teach again soon. Unfortunately being four months pregnant I probably have a while to wait.
 
Old 01-12-2009, 08:48 AM
 
2,214 posts, read 1,720,620 times
Reputation: 371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stacy From Cali View Post
I have cited you examples but you choose not to believe them because they do not meet your criteria for "truth". The hotel example seems pretty concrete to me as his manager actually said we fired you because you are gay. But, alas...it is based on the word of the employee so by your standards it much not be true. Much like you disbelieve my concrete example of racism because you think I'm lying.

You may believe what you like. You are going to anyway.

As for teaching...you presented this in an insulting way but I will give you an answer nonetheless. I posted on a different topic that when I moved to Omaha there was not a single teaching job available in my field. Nothing I could even apply for. In fact finding a job in education in this town has proved to be very difficult. So I am not currently teaching at a high school...but as they say you can take the teacher out of the high school but not the high school outta the teacher! I taught for years before I moved here. I love/loved it and really hope to be able to teach again soon. Unfortunately being four months pregnant I probably have a while to wait.
You provided a link that was 6 years old, retelling something that ALLEGEDLY took place 15 years ago.

The motel story is also an allegation. Why not let the courts decide if discrimination has taken place, rather than just jump to the side of one disgruntled former employee?

Even so, that does not provide one single example of ANYTHING happening in Omaha. Not one. So some dick in the Nashville area allegedly fired a guy for being gay? Yes, I suppose that if you have an overly active imagination, you can say that that is proof positive that it's happening in every city across the nation every day. Shoot, I'm sure that somewhere in Omaha there is some white guy claiming he was mistreated, not hired, or fired just because he's white. But that doesn't mean it's true.


See here's the problem: You can CLAIM anything. But just claiming it doesn't mean it's true. And THAT is why our laws assume that a person is innocent until proven guilty. So where's all the proof?
 
Old 01-12-2009, 09:02 AM
 
Location: Downtown Omaha
1,362 posts, read 4,192,394 times
Reputation: 526
You're probably not going to have many concrete examples of people being fired for being gay/black/female/old because no one wants to deal with that lawsuit. You can fire them for other reasons but it would be under the guise of what ever your "ism" is.

And to go back a few steps, yes the 150 at the vigil by your logic should be the only people who cared. Last year there were quite a few anti-violence rallies in north Omaha with anywhere from 50-200+ people, so again by your logic those few people are the only ones in the whole enitre city of Omaha who have experienced gun violence and since it's a paultry number gun violence must not be a big problem in Omaha and doesn't affect anyone.
 
Old 01-12-2009, 09:14 AM
 
2,214 posts, read 1,720,620 times
Reputation: 371
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTO Luv View Post
You're probably not going to have many concrete examples of people being fired for being gay/black/female/old because no one wants to deal with that lawsuit. You can fire them for other reasons but it would be under the guise of what ever your "ism" is.

And to go back a few steps, yes the 150 at the vigil by your logic should be the only people who cared. Last year there were quite a few anti-violence rallies in north Omaha with anywhere from 50-200+ people, so again by your logic those few people are the only ones in the whole enitre city of Omaha who have experienced gun violence and since it's a paultry number gun violence must not be a big problem in Omaha and doesn't affect anyone.
Now the "vigil" was 150? I thought it was about 40. Is there anytime soon that it will have grown to 250? 300?

And you keep skirting the issue and trying to compare apples to oranges!

First of all, if the famous "10% rule" is true, there should be close to 100,000 homosexuals in the metro area. And if this oppression of homosexuals is a prevalent as you seem to believe, there's no way on god's green earth that less than one one-thousandths of the gay population is going to protest! No way.

Second, as I keep saying to Stacy, anybody can claim anything. Shoot, I can claim that I'm an NBA player. But it doesn't mean it's true.


So again, allegations, innuendos, claims, accusations and a lot of other fluff. It's just NOT adding up.
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