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Old 03-28-2009, 04:54 PM
 
Location: West Omaha
1,181 posts, read 3,646,040 times
Reputation: 477

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I don't really care if you care about my opinion. I was posting objective information so people reading your claims would not be mislead. I'm not trying to convince you! I posted my response because some of your statements were misleading and were simply not true.

The stats don't just not support your claims, they completely blow them out of the water.

You claimed there was overwhelming evidence that pointed to midwives being safer than hospitals. Well, the facts are that stats indicate midwife births have double the infant mortality rate as the hospital birth rate. That doesn't even take into account the fact that the births going to midwives are going to be of lower risk than what hospitals deal with. If you would normalize for that tendency the difference would be even more staggeringly in the favor of hospitals.

THAT is why Nebraska does not embrace midwivery. It is simply more dangerous than hospital birth and that's the case whether some holistic healer with no actual medical training agrees or disagrees. Nebraska also doesn't support running a budget deficit...should Nebraska follow CA's lead on that one too??? Just because CA embraces something does NOT, under any circumstances, necessarily make it the smart or right thing to do. You also seem to suggest the reason its not accepted here is the medical industry protecting its income stream. So, does that mean that midwives do what they do for free?? The reason this is more accepted by the CA state government is because there is a larger holistic healing lobby in CA. To suggest that economics are not an issue on both sides is simply naive. Once again you are accusing Nebraska of being the backwooded monster, when the reality is the facts support Nebraska's position. Apparently, Nebraska's "ignorance" is much safer for mothers and babies than California's acquiescence to the holistic lobby.

And, yes, the choice isn't mine alone. The choice is MINE AND MY WIFE'S. She has the medical training and she wouldn't dream of using a midwife. The fact that someone with a history degree thinks its safer is about as relevant to our decision as my mechanic telling me its safer.

Last edited by mattpoulsen; 03-28-2009 at 05:24 PM..
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Old 03-28-2009, 05:30 PM
 
Location: Omaha, NE
1,119 posts, read 3,812,593 times
Reputation: 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stacy From Cali View Post
I personally don't care if you are convinced or not, I was simply explaining my reasoning for a choice I have made. You are never going to have to push out a kid my friend, so the choice will never truly be yours.

My husband has a PhD in medical history and fully supports my decision.

Pass the bean dip.


Staci, I understand that Omaha isn't your cup of tea.. I know that some people live an die for a mountain..

But for those people that do not, Omaha is a well known fun city. I read comments from people that live in various parts of the country and from many different sources that talk about how cool or great the city is.

Some people will also dog the city with some very unfortunate misinformation.

But that is okay, we like people who research before they come out here and discover the city for what it is, not try to uphold some urban myths.

Omaha is known as one of the top 'events' cities as well as the NCAA noted that Omaha is only one of a couple of the top College sports city as well.

One of the several concert venues in the metro sells less tickets than only 5-15 concert venues in the entire wold. That says a lot considering that is just one of the several concert venues in the city.

We are a top 15 casino market (unfortunately), we are a destination for many factors and there is more coming shortly..

The zoo is in year 2 of a planned $100+ million dollar expansion, a major retail center is planned by the MAC arena (another one of several concert/show/convention/sports arenas) that was selected over KC and Minneapolis for a high class shopping center..

A 10 story condo hotel tower is planned by the same arena that will have something like 34 extreme sporting capabilities that will have events and tours scheduled. Including an outdoor year-round ski center. This is planned by a destination planner that is planning a similar center by the Dells in Wisconsin.

The walking/biking trails is ever expanding, the pedestrian bridge was built not only to allow a safe pedestrian walkway between Omaha and Council Bluffs, but as part of the biking/walking trails that tally hundreds of miles.

The Loess Hills, while not a mountain range, has good walking and biking trails. But this might be more of a teaser for a mountain loving nut like yourself.

Omaha is a work in progress, and it has accomplished more per capita than most cities in the US, and more is coming.

The city is more than a metro of 900,000 (1.2 million with Lincoln within marathon running distance), there are 59 metropolitan areas with more people than Omaha (44 metropolitan areas if you include lincoln). We stand out as a notable city, we are not a forgotten city. If you ask people if they have ever heard about us they will say one of two things:
1) I heard that it is a cow-town, middle-of-knower nightmarish winter town
OR
2) That is a great city! I've been there a few times and had the time of my life, there is so much more to do there than i could have imagined. The economy is just downright top-notch..

Usually option #1 is from somebody that lives up to stereotypes and #2 is from somebody that doesn't like stereotypes, either way we stand on a mountain and we are being noticed by many in this country.

On rivals.com people were talking about how Omaha owned ESPN for about an entire year with all of the sporting events coming through..

The most respected publishers like Money/Forbes and Business Weekly rave about our economy and how strong/stable it is. How we are business friendly and etc..

Our population growth is reflecting the respect we are getting from events planners, business forums and etc.. We went from nearly a standstill growth rate in the 1980's to an above average growth rate in the 1990's till still a faster growth rate these days with the expect growth rate to be closer to 1.5x the national growth rate..

We have some of the nations most notable universities: UNL, UNO, UNMC, Creighton, and have a nationally/even internationally respected community college: Metropolitan community College. And this just scratches the surface of the numerous educational opportunities here..

Our transportation system is very much a respected system for road travel as only a handful of cities over 200,000 are a 20 minute city. We are sitting at 18.3 minutes and closing in on 500,000 people in the city limits..

Our mass transportation is a joke, but it is going to change very soon and very drastically. I am already seeing many park and rides running along dodge st. The city is planning a monstrous increase in busing, and numerous studies have been done for the soon-to-be implemented trolly/streetcar/light-rail system..

Our downtown is in the middle of a major, major, major expansion phase. TWO high-rises are breaking ground this year, mid-town crossing will be nearly complete, a MLB sized stadium will be constructed, and an expected 2.5 million sq ft of additional office space is expected in the near future for downtown. That much office space could not be met with the three largest towers combined at current.

The state of Nebraska was the ONLY state in the last month to see the unemployment rate decrease: from 4.3 percent the month before to 4.2 percent currently. While our unemployment rate has seen a dramatic increase from a year ago: 3.2 percent to 4.2 percent, it is nowhere near the national unemployment rate of 8.1%. I'm sure the opening of Google, Yahoo, and Alegent Health data centers, the billion dollars worth of hospital expansions, along with the increased construction from the current project AND housing (housing stock is lower than it has been since the 1990s).. I think our unemployment rate should drop back down to under 4.0% this summer.

The reason for this response is because you are saying that Omaha is boring.. Well it is boring for mountain climbers, I know it is! But that is a perception and not a fact. We are not a boring city, we are a fun city. We just don't have mountains and most people prefer NOT to have mountains. But there is a segment of society such as yourself that need a mountain! I understand this and do not feel as though there is something wrong with you! That is your preference for recreation, and I respect that! But please don't tell us how boring we are, because we work our tails off at building this city and are respected all over the nation at our progress, we are also respected all across the nation at how giving we are as a city. We have given billions to get this city where it is and to allow the people to enjoy it.

We are not boring to people that must live near a mountain, that is a fact from the majority of people. Again, I respect your opinion, but to flat out say that we are boring as a people and city is wrong in almost every way. And again for the third and last time, I understand you are bored because of the lack of a mountain and the things it provides you for things to do..

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Old 03-28-2009, 05:32 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,471 posts, read 74,366,214 times
Reputation: 47872
how many mistake this OP for something about the president?
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Old 03-28-2009, 06:20 PM
 
516 posts, read 1,209,948 times
Reputation: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattpoulsen View Post
I don't really care if you care about my opinion. I was posting objective information so people reading your claims would not be mislead. I'm not trying to convince you! I posted my response because some of your statements were misleading and were simply not true.

The stats don't just not support your claims, they completely blow them out of the water.

You claimed there was overwhelming evidence that pointed to midwives being safer than hospitals. Well, the facts are that stats indicate midwife births have double the infant mortality rate as the hospital birth rate. That doesn't even take into account the fact that the births going to midwives are going to be of lower risk than what hospitals deal with. If you would normalize for that tendency the difference would be even more staggeringly in the favor of hospitals.

THAT is why Nebraska does not embrace midwivery. It is simply more dangerous than hospital birth and that's the case whether some holistic healer with no actual medical training agrees or disagrees. Nebraska also doesn't support running a budget deficit...should Nebraska follow CA's lead on that one too??? Just because CA embraces something does NOT, under any circumstances, necessarily make it the smart or right thing to do. You also seem to suggest the reason its not accepted here is the medical industry protecting its income stream. So, does that mean that midwives do what they do for free?? The reason this is more accepted by the CA state government is because there is a larger holistic healing lobby in CA. To suggest that economics are not an issue on both sides is simply naive. Once again you are accusing Nebraska of being the backwooded monster, when the reality is the facts support Nebraska's position. Apparently, Nebraska's "ignorance" is much safer for mothers and babies than California's acquiescence to the holistic lobby.

And, yes, the choice isn't mine alone. The choice is MINE AND MY WIFE'S. She has the medical training and she wouldn't dream of using a midwife. The fact that someone with a history degree thinks its safer is about as relevant to our decision as my mechanic telling me its safer.
Someone with a history degree would probably know that your statement about natal mortality decreasing in the last 100 years was misleading...because it has actually risen in the last 50.

Someone with a graduate history degree (which I also have) would probably not come to these conclusions without a great deal of research. If you want a bibliography let me know.

You are apparently basing all this information on one crappy link.. I think that it is pretty rich. You have NO concept of the "reality" of the facts.

Midwives do have medical training, and in fact sometimes they even work in hospitals (gasp!). You have no idea what you are talking about. There is even a group of midwives working out of UNMC. They are, however, forbidden to do homebirths. Hello, medical lobby anyone?? For every midwife that does a homebirth one less woman pays the hospital. Birthing is a big $$ industry and consumers deserve more choice.

I don't know where the heck you are getting your "overwhelming stats" outside of your one crappy link but you are dead wrong as to your conclusions. Birthing at the hospital is not for everyone; we need more choices. Look at the way they do it in the UK for inspiration.

Plus you use holistic like it is a bad word. Whatever dude.



ehenningsen, I disagree with nothing you have posted here (on quick perusal...with one exception...see below) but that in no way discounts what I posted which is it depends where one's interests lie. I find all this focus on mountains funny since I don't recall ever saying that was a huge thing for me personally. My big thing is yummy food actually, and/or locally grown stuff.

Onething though: my husband and I work for some of these great educational centers you mention, and I think it is pretty clear that they are not some of the "nation's most notible". They're not bad for what they are, but reign it in a bit!
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Old 03-28-2009, 07:19 PM
 
Location: West Omaha
1,181 posts, read 3,646,040 times
Reputation: 477
Staci,

Those numbers are from the CDC taken during a time period during 2003 and 2004. What happened 50 years ago has nothing to do with it. And the infant mortality rate has risen in the last 50 for those with out proper medical care! Its function of poverty, ignorance, and births given artificially late in the mother's life that have led to these numbers. Furthermore, you're trying to change the subject as that is not what the conversation is about. What is at issue is whether midwifing is safer than hospital birth. I posted a set of objective facts. You have provided nothing but your opinion. I believe it is you who doesn't know what she's talking about.

No, I didn't do months of research on the issue. But it took me all of 5 minutes to find OBJECTIVE stats on the issue that clearly indicate your assumptions and statements were misleading at best, and completely false at worst. The point is your "grad" degree and your husbands degree are no more relevant to the issue than my Ph.D. in physics.

Why don't you come up with facts supporting your point of view??

As far as my issue with "holistic" being bad, that's not true. My issue with "holistic healing" is that so so so much of it is completely baseless. Is there some "holistic" medicine that's effective and good? Absolutely. Are midwives useful IN a hospital setting? Yes, I didn't disagree with that. But that is NOT what you are advocating.

As far as your "choice." Fine, do as you please. But having a "choice" does NOT make it a scientifically superior choice, and it does NOT make it safer.
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Old 03-28-2009, 08:06 PM
 
Location: Bristol, WI
281 posts, read 822,387 times
Reputation: 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by nephthys View Post
I have the same problem living in Portland, OR, which isn't much larger than Omaha. I've had people break out laughing when I told them im from Omaha...
I had to laugh when I read this. I lived in Oregon for a year before I moved to Chicago. I have never understand how Oregonians get so full of themselves; it has got to be one of the dreariest places in this country. Portland is a horribly dull, ugly, miserable, wet city. It doesn't hold a candle to Omaha for grace and charm.

I stopped in Omaha on my way out and really liked it. I seriously considered moving there if Chicago didn't work out. As it happens, it did.

BTW, I'm originally from San Francisco and I get the "Why on earth would you move here?" reaction a lot. But I love the Midwest. I love the hot, sultry summers, the majesty of the Plains, the down-to-earth, honest people, the simple realness of everything.
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Old 03-28-2009, 08:33 PM
 
Location: Omaha, NE
1,119 posts, read 3,812,593 times
Reputation: 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by trailerguy View Post
I had to laugh when I read this. I lived in Oregon for a year before I moved to Chicago. I have never understand how Oregonians get so full of themselves; it has got to be one of the dreariest places in this country. Portland is a horribly dull, ugly, miserable, wet city. It doesn't hold a candle to Omaha for grace and charm.

I stopped in Omaha on my way out and really liked it. I seriously considered moving there if Chicago didn't work out. As it happens, it did.

BTW, I'm originally from San Francisco and I get the "Why on earth would you move here?" reaction a lot. But I love the Midwest. I love the hot, sultry summers, the majesty of the Plains, the down-to-earth, honest people, the simple realness of everything.
I talked with some lady from Florida the other day, and she had asked me where was I from. I told her at that point that I am in Omaha and she immediately broke out in a laugh and said, "do people 'really' still live there?".
Of course I used this as an opportunity to put her on the spot by saying, "absolutely! I love it here and will never again move away from here, and I am sure you have spoke with people that talk bad about it, probably more of the 'miserable winter city', but that is the small minority as most people absolutely love the four seasons as I do. It's probably the same for Florida, as I get people telling me that they had to get away from there and their awful heat/humidity and the disgusting bugs that come with it."

I could feel the heat radiating from her, and she just broke out in another laugh and said, "probably"

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Old 03-28-2009, 08:42 PM
 
Location: Chicago
3,340 posts, read 8,687,605 times
Reputation: 1215
Staci and Matt, Everyone can have their own opinions on this issue, because clearly the ramblings of one won't change the opinion of the other, however Staci, because the life of your baby is at stake here, please be completely 100% sure of what you want to do before the time comes.
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Old 03-29-2009, 08:45 AM
 
516 posts, read 1,209,948 times
Reputation: 120
Go Ne please do not listen to Matt's fearmongering. Its probably the most important decision a woman (yes, I still say a woman...) has to make. Why on earth take would I take it lightly?

See Matt's deal is that he sees the world in black and white. If he disagrees with something it must be "wrong" and the other party must be "lying". He is a true believer in "objective facts", where I am not. I tend to see things as existing along a spectrum...different answers for different people. IMO there is no such thing as objective facts because all things are interpreted through the lens of human experience and spun to achieve someone's ends. Everything is subjective.

I guess that's the difference in worldview between an historian and a lawyer.


I'll post more later today.
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Old 03-29-2009, 08:54 AM
 
Location: Grand Island, Nebraska
736 posts, read 1,663,359 times
Reputation: 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwconne View Post
I wonder why people from other parts of the country freak out when I tell them I am from Omaha. I have lived all over the country and this is by far one of the best kept secrets of a city out there. I am not from here but when I had to leave Omaha for work, I jumped at the chance to move back. Why do people have a miss conception of Omaha which I consider home now ???
If you think it is bad now you should of been around back in the middle 70's
it was 100 times worce conception of Omaha. When we moved here from New York folks thought we were crazy. They thought Cowboys and Indians still ran around shooting each other, saloons were the norm and this was a po-dunk town. Still is in a way.

After 35 years of living here I have come up with this conclusion; The rest of the country does not care about Omaha's reputation. In the rest of the country's eye Omaha does not rate in anyones book. I still tell folks where I am from and it is a conversation killer. Some might ask questions, but most of the time the subject is changed.

I say, "I'm from Omaha" they say "Omaha, um where is that again?" or the classic still a normal responce they say "Omaha, I get your steaks." and I say "Yeah they make them in Ohio and ship from Kentucky." they say "Really?" I say "Yeah it's just a name." and then I add "Yeah, they were even thinking of moving to China."
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