[SCGranny]

I just don't think the stupidity WILL go. Sorry, but as long as people are promised something - anything - from power thru money to control over others - they will vote for the candidate who swears he will 'give' them the most. Every time someone stands up and says, "Government should follow Constitutional guidelines and people nor corporations should not be succored by it" s/he is shouted down and ignored. If this were not true, where do all the election monies and lobbyists come from and why are they needed? People get into politics on the backs and out of the pockets of others who expect a profit from their 'investment'. I trust neither group, won't listen to either side... they are all bought and paid for. And the yammering people who salivate after first this one and then that one are the same ones who sit glued to their TVs and believe that "Survivor" and WWF are REAL, who don't CARE that "Johnny can't read", and who think that Rush and "the View" have viable, honest, and sensible political discussions. Ron White's right - "You can't fix stupid". Especially the ones who are determined, proud, and happy to be so. There will be no revolution. Ever. Shrug.

[tijlover]

Gore Vidal inteligently assessed the political environment of this country years ago by saying: There is only ONE political party in the U.S., one side leans to the left and one leans to the right. SO! When are we going to create a strong 2nd party in this country?

[SCGranny]

When we lose that "the world OWES me a living" mentality. Which will not happen. Government will create new government jobs out of whole cloth, and everyone will either be feeding happily at the government trough - or be thought of as fringe lunatics for not doing so. But you can't get rid of the fringe lunatics - they are the ones who are paying everyone else's bills.

[thatguy1]

Originally Posted by mattpoulsen

I would agree with Nita. People tend to get this idea that we just recently have become entrenched in the two party system. This is not true. Our country, from the outset, has had two parties that have constantly opposed each other. In fact, even prior to the U.S. of America there was constant struggle between the Republicans (not the same as today's republican party!) and Federalists in trying to decide what form of government we should even have!

Having two parties is simply another check in our system.

The problem isn't the parties. The problem is the PEOPLE! We are a horde of ignorant and sensation loving idiots! If we would actually vote people into power on the basis of their ability and quit worrying about ridiculously superficial issues a lot of these problems could be resolved. Further, the average voter knows far far far more about the contestants on American Idol then they do their own government and the issues of the day.

The public wants to blame the politicians, and if that fails they want to blame the media. Well, the public should blame themselves! I just thank god we don't live in a true democracy and there is a little insulation between the masses and the controls of the country.

As far as Bush having the worst administration, that is absolutely NOT something that can be judged now. Say hypothetically Iraq turns into a flourishing democracy and transforms the dynamic in the Middle East? Only time will tell how good or bad Bush was.

I agree, mostly. Many politicians show a completely different face during the onset of their careers and especially in their campaigns.

Many times with years of service come more and more lucrative temptations from various lobbying parties. I don’t think voters completely know who they are voting in many times.

I definitely agree with the American Idol part. The American voter is lazy as hell.

I would do another quote from above but I'm a LAZY American voter.
....Regarding Bush, yes, time will tell. I do find it awfully hard to believe that Saddam Hussein, after years and years of violating UN resolutions and lying about weapons programs, had no WMD's to speak of.

I’m sure he fully believed that IF the second gulf war were to take place, the result would probably have been similar to that of the first. He would be in power, no WMD's found, and the US looks like an aggressive, warmongering nation.

So who knows, Bush may have been right (unknowingly) about that. The weapons program may have fired up the minute we left…for the second time.

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by nmnita

by who's standards and what system is better? Can we go back to Carter, then tell us who is or was worse???

Nita

No, Carter was mainly constrained by a terrible economy that took economists several years after his administration was over to fix. Volker was instrumental in putting the necessary mechanisims in place to right the ship. Stagflation was not even in the dictionary back then, and it was later studied in a much more in-depth manner. Reagan doesn't deserve nearly the credit he got for turning the economy around either. In fact, he started the defecit spending spree rolling with huge increases in the military industrial complex. The Bush administration was similar except it spent a lot of money on the military surveilence complex.


I think the main problem right now is that we need to be very cautious at how much more "stimulus" we really need. I complained mightily about how the neoconservatives took us deep into debt over Iraq, but the Democrats are now creating an even larger amount of debt through some of this stimulus. The first bank bailout under the outgoing Bush administration was terrible, and I think everyone agrees. What we need is much greater fiscal oversite regarding exactly how much money goes toward creating actual jobs and not temporary government-creted jobs.
I am an Independent leaning Democrat, but I think we need to rethink some of the tax cut options as well. We could potentially eliminate the capital gains tax as well as lower some business tax rates. I think these should be somewhat limited due to the fact that they did not work well under the Bush administration.

[MR.JEFFY]

...and the funny thing is...the value of paper is based on how much faith is put into it...suppose that no matter how many "solutions" we throw at the economy the value of the dollar will slowly die and no one will want our stupid money......we might have to start farming again! :O

Oh well, no iPhone for you, you need to make the payment on your newly used car! Life sucks doesn't it!? I have a feeling that our lower class equals many upper classes of the world...and the wall street and corporate con men richer than most corrupt kings and dictators.

[jm31828]

Originally Posted by jwconne

I am just amazed why the American people just sit here when the liberals lie and cheat in this spendulous package. We have too many "watch the evening news and believe what the media wants you to believe" (execpt Fox) people. We have seen more lies and democrapic tax cheaters in the last few weeks than positive acts from the new Democrapic Aminastration. I believe America is going to get what they voted for....Crap..... then revolt back to conservative ways. God bless us !!!

This is hilarious. For starters, Republicans and their twisted Fox News-watching ilk scream about the expense of the stimulus package- something designed, for better or worse- to try to help our own nation and pull us out of recession- but yet supported the utter WASTE of almost the same amount of money George Bush got us involved in to play war games in Iraq! At least this has the goal of helping us, helping and improving our own country, why is that less important than blowing up a 3rd world country for no reason?
And as others have mentioned, we DID revolt- we got tired of the criminal, arrogant, ignorant administration we had for the previous 8 years and decided not to elect someone fitting that same mold.

[nmnita]

Originally Posted by smithy77

Americans did revolt (peacefully) last November. At least I don't have to cringe in embarrassment anymore whenever the president opens his mouth.

but will he know when to shut it?

And, no, they did not revolt, peacefully or anyother way. We simply elected a new President...

Are you saying, everytime the Whitehouse changes parties, it is a revolt? I really don't think you really mean that..

and come on, I can't really believe you think he handled himself brillantly..You can love him, support him and stand by him, but to say he was brillant just isn't so. At least I didn't see it that way..

Nita

[nmnita]

Originally Posted by burgerflipper

I agree, mostly. Many politicians show a completely different face during the onset of their careers and especially in their campaigns.

Many times with years of service come more and more lucrative temptations from various lobbying parties. I don’t think voters completely know who they are voting in many times.

I definitely agree with the American Idol part. The American voter is lazy as hell.

I would do another quote from above but I'm a LAZY American voter.
....Regarding Bush, yes, time will tell. I do find it awfully hard to believe that Saddam Hussein, after years and years of violating UN resolutions and lying about weapons programs, had no WMD's to speak of.

I’m sure he fully believed that IF the second gulf war were to take place, the result would probably have been similar to that of the first. He would be in power, no WMD's found, and the US looks like an aggressive, warmongering nation.

So who knows, Bush may have been right (unknowingly) about that. The weapons program may have fired up the minute we left…for the second time.

of course he had WMDs, we gave him plenty of time to dispose of them.

Nita

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by nmnita

of course he had WMDs, we gave him plenty of time to dispose of them.

Nita

Why did the US choose to invade Iraq other than oil? We don't go on the warmongering spree to overthrow dictators in African countries! No WMDs were found and we spent nearly a trillion dollars of the taxpayer money in this wasteful conflict. The military-industrial complex $$$$$ should have flowed to the Afghanistam/Pakistan border where it was needed in order to combat and defeat Al Qaeda and Bin Laden.