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Old 04-24-2009, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Downtown Omaha
1,362 posts, read 4,193,260 times
Reputation: 526

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omahabound View Post
Tell me what I should conclude about male gays:

"In the United States, HIV infection and AIDS have had a tremendous effect on men who have sex with men (MSM). MSM accounted for 71% of all HIV infections among male adults and adolescents in 2005 (based on data from 33 states with long-term, confidential name-based HIV reporting), even though only about 5% to 7% of male adults and adolescents in the United States identify themselves as MSM "
I would say that it shows a lot of people are making very uneducated choices. There is not really an outlet that tells gay teens the proper safe ways to have sex like their is for their hetero counterparts. Even going into adulthood many gay people aren't well versed in what safe sex actually is.

Promiscuity increases the chances of getting HIV just from a numbers game, but as long as you're safe you can be with anyone, even someone who is positive, and not get it. Gays aren't anymore promiscuous than straights are. Part of the reason it may seem that way is you can't abort your proof like unsafe straight couples can. I think many gay people suffer from a stunted social development because they don't have the proper avenues to learn about dating and developing that set of social skills like other people do. If your parents aren't cool with your homosexuality than you sure aren't going to get healthy support in your relationships like a straight sibling would, so you don't learn how to make healthy relationships in partners (be they for the night or for life) until a later age. I think many gay men in their 20's and 30's (some even older) still behave like teenagers.

If you're not being shown the proper way to handle sex and relationships, whether you're straight or gay, than you're more at risk for making bad decisions and at greater risk of catching STDs or an unplanned pregnancy.
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Old 04-24-2009, 01:23 PM
 
Location: West Omaha
1,181 posts, read 3,646,896 times
Reputation: 477
Again, why is a higher risk of AIDS in the gay population relevant to the question of gay marriage?

I would bet that if marriage were disallowed in heterosexual relationships the amount promiscuity would go significantly up.

A higher AIDS rate just has no bearing on the issue of marriage. By that same thinking than we should make it illegal to have sex without a condom. Or we should make all non-marital sex illegal. There is no reason gays should be singled out on this issue.

Further, what about lesbians?? I'm actually willing to bet, and its purely a guess, that the rate of AIDS in lesbians (by that I mean woman who exclusively sleep with women...NOT bisexuals) is actually lower than heterosexual women. This stems from the biological difference in the way men and women "operate" during sex. For example, women are often more susceptible than men to certain STDS...simply because of biology. But that is because (and sorry to be graphic) of the "penetration" factor. Well, that happens in male gay sex...exposing those men to the same risk that heterosexual women face. While Lesbians don't face the same scenario during lesbian sex...thus they are not exposed to the same risks that heterosexual women are.

So, if we're going to use AIDS rates to indict the gay population then we need to use both sides of the equation. Again, I don't know, but I'd like to see comparable stats among for lesbians.
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Old 04-24-2009, 02:15 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 23,108,584 times
Reputation: 3889
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattpoulsen View Post
I would bet that if marriage were disallowed in heterosexual relationships the amount promiscuity would go significantly up.
I have no facts at my fingertips, so I'm certainly not going to bat on this one. But something about that statement has me scratching my head and saying, "Eeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhh, I don't know."

The heterosexual "community" is already pretty flagrantly promiscuous as is.
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Old 04-24-2009, 02:33 PM
 
Location: West Omaha
1,181 posts, read 3,646,896 times
Reputation: 477
Right, I agree, the single heterosexuals or "cheating" heterosexuals are probably just as promiscuous as anyone. But, as much as people like to make fun of commitment in marriage these days, the fact is when someone gets married they are much less likely to sleep around than if not.

I just think that the inability of marriage correlates strongly with the level of promiscuity witnessed in the gay community.

I'm just saying that all things being equal neither community is any more or any less promiscuous or moral.
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Old 04-24-2009, 02:56 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 23,108,584 times
Reputation: 3889
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattpoulsen View Post
Right, I agree, the single heterosexuals or "cheating" heterosexuals are probably just as promiscuous as anyone. But, as much as people like to make fun of commitment in marriage these days, the fact is when someone gets married they are much less likely to sleep around than if not.

I just think that the inability of marriage correlates strongly with the level of promiscuity witnessed in the gay community.

I'm just saying that all things being equal neither community is any more or any less promiscuous or moral.
Hmmmm... I'm not sure.

I have heard many times that - statistically speaking - homosexual men have far more sexual partners than heterosexual men.

These quotes are from a decidedly anti-homosexual website (so take it for what it's worth), but they quote sources that seem to be reliable. Is Homosexuality Healthy?

Quote:
[SIZE=2][SIZE=2]Bell and Weinberg reported evidence of widespread sexual compulsion among homosexual men. 83% of the homosexual men surveyed estimated they had had sex with 50 or more partners in their lifetime, 43% estimated they had sex with 500 or more partners; 28% with 1,000 or more partners.Bell and Weinberg p 308[/SIZE][/SIZE]
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[SIZE=2][SIZE=2]The same study revealed that homosexual men have to a great extent separated sexuality from relationship. The survey showed 79% of the respondents saying that over half of their sexual partners were strangers. Seventy percent said that over half of their sexual partners were people with whom they had sex only once. Bell and Weinberg pp.308-309. It should be noted that this survey was drawn from the San Francisco area at the height of the celebration by that gay community of its freedom from the restraints of “puritanical, middle-class values” and before the AIDS epidemic struck.
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[SIZE=2][SIZE=2]In their study of the sexual profiles of 2,583 older homosexuals published in Journal of Sex Research, [/SIZE][/SIZE][SIZE=2][SIZE=2]Paul Van de Ven et al. found that "the modal range for number of sexual partners ever [of homosexuals] [/SIZE][/SIZE][SIZE=2][SIZE=2]was 101–500." In addition, 10.2 percent to 15.7 percent had between 501 and 1000 partners. A further [/SIZE][/SIZE][SIZE=2][SIZE=2]10.2 percent to 15.7 percent reported having had more than 1000 lifetime sexual partners. Paul Van de Ven et al., "A Comparative Demographic and Sexual Profile of Older Homosexually Active Men," Journal of [/SIZE][/SIZE][SIZE=2][SIZE=2]Sex Research 34 (1997): 354.
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[SIZE=2][SIZE=2]A survey conducted by the homosexual magazine Genre found that 24 percent of the respondents said [/SIZE][/SIZE][SIZE=2][SIZE=2]they had had more than 100 sexual partners in their lifetime. The magazine noted that several respondents [/SIZE][/SIZE][SIZE=2][SIZE=2]suggested including a category of those who had more than 1,000 sexual partners. "Sex Survey Results," Genre (October 1996), quoted in "Survey Finds 40 percent of Gay Men Have Had More Than 40 Sex Partners," Lambda Report, January 1998, p. 20. [/SIZE][/SIZE]
I'm absolutely not trying to flame anyone here, or make any kind of anti-homosexual tirade. But if any of these statistics are accurate, I think a lot of homosexuals might be inviting disaster into their lives.
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Old 04-24-2009, 05:09 PM
 
1,156 posts, read 1,226,470 times
Reputation: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stacy From Cali View Post
s


This is neither here nor there really. Any biologist will tell you that all these statistics show is the presence of the disease within a certain population group. It says nothing about morality or whatever spin you are trying to put on it.

As I am sure you know, many African countries have a major AIDS crisis, and the major issue there is straight men who sleep around and then refuse to take responsibility for their actions when their wives and children contract the disease. Its a major social issue there because there is a huge social stigma against the disease so these husbands often leave their wives and then go find new ones...spreading the disease ever further.

Does this mean that straight men are all awful? My goodness, I mean these men..are straight!!

No of course not, again its a population thing. Honestly when you look at the numbers in some of these African countries they are staggering...because there are many many more straight people out there than gay.
Yes, it means gay males have some serious behavioral issues just as males in Africa have some serious behavioral issues.

If white men as a population started carjacking at an excessively high rate, I'd be giving every white guy a triple look any time they were withing 100 yards of my car.

You can ignore the obvious statistics to whitewash the ugly truth but I'll choose not to.
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Old 04-24-2009, 05:18 PM
 
1,156 posts, read 1,226,470 times
Reputation: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTO Luv View Post
I would say that it shows a lot of people are making very uneducated choices. There is not really an outlet that tells gay teens the proper safe ways to have sex like their is for their hetero counterparts. Even going into adulthood many gay people aren't well versed in what safe sex actually is.
That's utter nonsense. The gay community is actively involved in AIDS projects and it's obvious on gay sites. A search at 365gay.com returns 1,000 hits alone.

Quote:
Promiscuity increases the chances of getting HIV just from a numbers game, but as long as you're safe you can be with anyone, even someone who is positive, and not get it. Gays aren't anymore promiscuous than straights are.
Perhaps you can cite the evidence that it's not promiscuity but unsafe sex that is the problem of AIDS for gay men. Maybe you can also cite some evidence for your conclusions about gays being ignorant about safe sex.

Quote:
Part of the reason it may seem that way is you can't abort your proof like unsafe straight couples can.
Last I checked, you can't abort AIDS.

Quote:
I think many gay people suffer from a stunted social development because they don't have the proper avenues to learn about dating and developing that set of social skills like other people do. If your parents aren't cool with your homosexuality than you sure aren't going to get healthy support in your relationships like a straight sibling would, so you don't learn how to make healthy relationships in partners (be they for the night or for life) until a later age. I think many gay men in their 20's and 30's (some even older) still behave like teenagers.

If you're not being shown the proper way to handle sex and relationships, whether you're straight or gay, than you're more at risk for making bad decisions and at greater risk of catching STDs or an unplanned pregnancy.
Thanks for your opinion on the matter. If you have some studies to back your opinions, I'd like to see those as well.
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Old 04-25-2009, 01:14 AM
 
Location: Midtown Omaha
605 posts, read 1,058,495 times
Reputation: 122
It appears to me that some people's true colors are coming out in this thread too! Very interesting!
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Old 04-25-2009, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Omaha, NE
1,119 posts, read 3,813,530 times
Reputation: 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omahabound View Post
Yes, it means gay males have some serious behavioral issues just as males in Africa have some serious behavioral issues.

If white men as a population started carjacking at an excessively high rate, I'd be giving every white guy a triple look any time they were withing 100 yards of my car.

You can ignore the obvious statistics to whitewash the ugly truth but I'll choose not to.

You really think that gay people have behavioral issues?

The fact that you say that violates any valid ethical codes. Broad-labeling is wrong and is a powerful foundation to hate..
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Old 04-25-2009, 02:36 PM
 
Location: Downtown Omaha
1,362 posts, read 4,193,260 times
Reputation: 526
I responded in bold

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omahabound View Post
That's utter nonsense. The gay community is actively involved in AIDS projects and it's obvious on gay sites. A search at 365gay.com returns 1,000 hits alone.


Perhaps you can cite the evidence that it's not promiscuity but unsafe sex that is the problem of AIDS for gay men. Maybe you can also cite some evidence for your conclusions about gays being ignorant about safe sex.

Um lets see. I'm gay. I've had sex with gay men and a surprising number of them didn't know about a lot of the things they needed to do to stay some. I guess I don't need research since I've lived it.




Last I checked, you can't abort AIDS.

I was talking about pregnancy.

Thanks for your opinion on the matter. If you have some studies to back your opinions, I'd like to see those as well.

Again, I don't need studies. I've lived it and seen it first hand.
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