Omaha World Herald (OWH) is a joke (high school, prices)

Steve_W · 07-25-2007, 07:58 AM

OWH can be some pathetic reading sometimes. As with many newspapers OWH always has an inside agenda and can be over opinionated. Their weather section is pretty riveting though! =-/

mattpoulsen · 07-29-2007, 07:55 PM

For the conspiracy theorists:

U.S. gasoline prices fall to $2.88 - Jul. 29, 2007 (broken link)

Sometimes there is a reason for increased prices other than "the man".

kosnebbear · 07-30-2007, 03:49 AM

And sometimes the conspiracy turns out to be fact. Take a look at the Tillman case for one. Also do you think the price fell due to the out cry from the people.

My wife was in Lincoln when the price became the highest in the nation. The out cry began and the next day the price fell 30 cents. What happened did the oil companies all of a sudden find more gas and other oil products for this sudden drop in price? I don't know the answer, you don't know the answer. Does the federal or even the state government know the reason why? If they do they will not tell us and if they did say something do you think that anyone will believe them? Do you think the oil companies will tell us? To me something smells here and it sure isn't me. I have come to a point where I am tired of getting lied to by individuals in position who can tell the truth, but chose not to. What is wrong with telling the truth these days?

mattpoulsen · 07-30-2007, 11:00 AM

No, the oil companies did not find more oil! This is what I've been saying...the amount of oil in the ground is not what dictates prices! That was true 20 years ago...but now its the ability to refine the oil which is the primary indicator. As soon as the two refineries (one in Kansas and one in Indiana) came back on line the price of gas dropped nearly 20 cents. That is the reason. It has nothing to do with the amount of oil in the ground.

Refinery output is simply being outpaced by demand...the result is increased gas price. This is how the price of gas can increase when the price of crude oil goes down. This is also the way its been for a while. Unfortunately, (or maybe fortunately depending on how you look at it) refineries are not being built fast enough to make up this difference. As a result, anytime one is knocked out the price is going to spike dramatically.

So, it turns out that the the high prices that we've seen have a logical and justified reason behind them. The subsequent drop then had nothing to do with public outcry...it had to to with the reversal of circumstances which led to the jump to begin with (i.e. the refineries started operating again). And the drop in price was immediately after the refineries came back online...it wasn't associated to a public outcry. Lincoln maybe had high relative prices compared to the rest of the U.S. but so did all of the cities in the midwest...that's because the two refineries were in the midwest. Its supply and demand and the midwest's supply was badly pinched.

kosnebbear · 07-30-2007, 12:11 PM

I agree with you concerning the refining of the oil that we have. But stop to think that the refinery did not come back on line over night when the gas prices peaked. The refinery was still shut down that they were saying was the problem. The one in Coffeyville was the one. It was still flooded when the prices dropped suddenly.

As for refineries being built. There has not been one build or even been given a EPA clearance to be built in over 30 years. We can thank all of the enviormentalist for this and all of the regulations passed by our beloved elected leaders. Here is the article for you to read that will support my statement.

Refinery Reform Campaign

Here is the story about Coffeyville Oil Refinery as well. This is dated July 2, 2007. Do you really think that they were able to get this up and running over night?

Coffeyville Kansas refinery underwater - US (http://news.monstersandcritics.com/usa/news/article_1325669.php/Coffeyville_Kansas_refinery_underwater - broken link)

Nebraska gas prices peaked around July 15, 2007 then the next day they went down as much as 30 cents per gallon. Now you can believe what you want to believe in, the tooth fairy, easter bunny or what ever, but as for me concerning what we are being told I will not believe the people who are feeding us the line of BS that they are handing out.

This story tells you that they were going to see if they could restart the refinery on July 18, 2007. Three days after the prices began to drop. Now why was that when the refinery was not even making gas. Where did all of the extra gas come from that made the price suddenly drop? Also in the story they are detailing what they had to do in order to even make the attempt to bring this refinery back on line on July 13, 2007.

About Coffeyville Resources (broken link)

I respect your opinion as being yours, but I if you just sit back and look at what is in front of you how can you not believe that some of what we are being told is just what it is BS. Please take the time to read all of these articles then tell me that you really believe in what they are telling us.

kosnebbear · 07-30-2007, 12:37 PM

Matt,

I just now found this one that came out in the Omaha World Herald about the Coffeyville Refinery. Looks like it is still not up and will not be running until this fall. So once again why did the gas price take a big drop when they peaked and the people started to ***** about them? Where did all of the unknown gas come from that made the price suddenly drop?

Refinery aims to be open by fall

mattpoulsen · 07-30-2007, 02:17 PM

Kos,

The refinery in Indiana did reopen and the one in Coffeyville will soon open. Some of the pricing is also associated to speculation and the fact that coffeyville will soon be open will, ultimately, reduce pricing pressure.

As far as why refineries aren't opening it doesn't really matter. The EPA, the environmentalist groups, whoever. None of them have anything to do with the aforementioned conspiracy theory that suggested it was the oil companies manipulating gas prices. In fact, your suggestion that the EPA and environmentalist policy is affecting policy actually supports my claim that it is market factors that is causing the drastic fluctuations.

My whole point with this is that its not "the man" trying to stick it to anyone. There are multiple groups, companies, and agencies that affect the price of gas and many of them, like environmental groups and oil companies, have interests that are completely orthogonal. This is what's wrong with the conspiracy theory...there is no one interest that dictates the apparent effects that you and others are suggesting.

I don't need to be told about how to analyze the facts...but thankyou. Yes, you should read between the lines, but what a few on here are suggesting is like reading clouds. There are no related facts only loose correlation and suggestion. The fact is that when two midwest refineries went offline prices in the midwest jumped, relative to the rest of the U.S. Then, when one came back online and the other was reporting that it will soon be back online, the price of fuel subsequently dropped. Those are the facts. People can look at gas prices over a period of time and try to theorize a conspiracy theory if they like, but its just like reading the clouds...you see what you want to see. The thing that kills me is the original post suggesting price fixing mentioned nothing of refinery capacity. An educated look at gas prices and the oil market can not possibly suggest price fixing without at least mentioning refinery capacity and trying to analyze the association of gas prices to refinery capacity.

kosnebbear · 07-30-2007, 03:03 PM

Matt,

Who controls the oil market today? Who controls the refineries today? I remember years ago when the gas companies, Shell, Mobile, Exon, Phillips 66, Texaco, etc, had TV ads trying to get you to buy their gas. When was the last time you saw a gas company ad on TV, in the newspaper, hear something on the radio? They don't have to buy ads anymore as we all are so dependent on their product. We are hooked on gas for our cars and they know it. Where I live in southeastern Nebraska I have to rely on my vehicles to get around as I don't have a public transportation serivce I could use. If I did I would use it to get around and save on gas. I just don't have this option. They also know this as well. We do not have what Europe has in the way of public transportation. They also know this as well. So with all of this known by them don't you think that they would not control the production of oil coming out of the ground and the production of the by products made by oil in order to make a profit. Yes oil is running out as it can not last forever. Someday my classical Chevrolet pickup will never run again as there will be no gas for it. The oil companies also know this so why not get as much money as they can while they can. I also think that there is more oil in the ground than we know about. They estimate that just in the Colorado, Wyoming, Utah area in the coal shell beds that there is more oil there than in the entire Middle East area. Yet we can't touch it due to the enivormental impact that is being told to us. I have to say that we need to be careful with our enviorment, but we have the knowledge to protect it and yet produce more oil that is needed to run our country.

In the free market place that we have you have the right to fix the price, in gas pricing, at what you want it to be as long as the market, the consumer, you and me will let be fixed and pay the price that they have it set at.

If getting the price of gas down is controlled by the number of refineries that we have then why have no new ones been built in the last 30 years? Maybe if we had say four or five more refineries the oil companies could make enough gas. Yet why would they do that when we will pay what we are paying now for gas. Wait until next year and see how high they will take it just to test the market to see where it can be set next. This practice has been going on now for several years. As for "the man" trying to stick it to us that is not even the case. They want to make a profit just like you and I would love to make a million dollars every year.

Man would I just love to sit across a table face to face with you and debate this issue. But I am in Kosovo and you are about to start college, I think that you are about to go to law school if I remember right. I hope that you do good in college. So take care as I know that you will not convinence me that the gas companies are not controlling what we have to pay for gas and I will not convinence you that they are, but we do live in a free country.

mattpoulsen · 07-30-2007, 05:14 PM

Kos,

Ok. It is a free country and we'll agree to disagree...fair enough. You're right...I'm finishing up my Ph.D. and heading back for more this fall. I would also enjoy having this argument face to face.

...by the way...I see gas company ads all the time...just had to get in the last word.

Matt

kosnebbear · 07-31-2007, 05:16 AM

Good luck with your Ph.D. Over milkshake Burger King 48th & Holdrege, Lincoln sometime April 2008. This way we both will have time to watch what will happen by then.

Take care and study hard.

Bob