U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Nebraska > Omaha
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-01-2010, 07:40 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 23,108,584 times
Reputation: 3889

Advertisements

So the Tea Party Express stops through Omaha today. From what little I heard, I assumed there might be a couple dozen crazies, holding up banners and doing a lot of yelling.

But by the picture in the article, it looks like a lot of people showed up. The article mentions there were about 1,000.

This seems like a pretty big rally, considering it was 5:00 PM on Thursday, April 1st.

So is The Tea Party Movement something that's going to make a difference in the political landscape of the next decade? I'm beginning to think it might.

It's a Tea Party in Omaha - Omaha.com
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-01-2010, 11:01 PM
 
1,221 posts, read 2,129,456 times
Reputation: 1057
Is it legitimate? Yeah. I think they need to come up with a coherent set of solutions instead of just positioning themselves as an opposition group. I know who and what they're against, but, other than a broad outline of their principles, it isn't clear what they're for, or how they intend to implement their goals. From the outside, it seems that they're a hodge-podge of disaffected middle-aged white folks with as many issues as there are people in the organization. Politically, they seem to be all over the place---libertarians, far-right wing conservatives, militia group types, angry vets, anti-tax advocates, anti-health care folks, gold-standard folks, anti-immigration people, anti one-world government types and the usual group of paranoid schitzophrenics and terribly disturbed people who usually gravitiate to political movements on the fringe. They certainly have a right to exist, but I'm bothered by the more strident extremists among them. Groups like this pop up from time to time in American history, but they are usually co-opted by the larger political parties, or they collapse because of internal political infighting (already an issue from what I've read) over control of the group, and the inevitable undercurrent of paranoia. I also doubt that the group would exist without generous funding from behind the scenes front groups like 'Freedom Works' or the (free) organizational skills of Fox News and talk radio. I think their power will peak during this election cycle, but their power will eventually wane because of the passage of the health care bill, since 'Freedom Works' was heavily subsidized by the health insurance industry.

Last edited by smithy77; 04-01-2010 at 11:15 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-02-2010, 06:02 AM
 
Location: Here
704 posts, read 1,614,051 times
Reputation: 327
I think they are legitimate. However I don't think that thy are going to have a lot of staying power. In my opinion I think they are a fear group. They are a rag tag group of people brought together with one thing in common, fear.

The greatest uniter they have had is opposition to this healthcare bill, but what do they intend to do about it? Repealing it is totally unrealistic. It is here to stay. Moreover once it starts rolling out people are going to see that it is not the horrbile thing that that they had made it out to be.

They've painted themselves into a corner. Their entire potency is based on this idea that Barack Obama is a radical socialist, perhaps even a facist. Which is simply wrong. Barack is no different than any other democratic mainstream politician and he is proving it now. In the coming months now that Healthcare is passed I predict you will see more efforts from Obama to regain the support of middle of the road and even conservative voters. We've seen some of this already with his surprise trip to Afghanistan to rally the troops, and his announcment of expanded off-shore oil drilling. It will be much like the "triangulation" that Bill Clinton pulled off that gained him a second term and a very successful presidency. Even if the Democrats lose the House, Senate, or Both; I predict Obama will win a second term and advance key parts of his agenda.

Most of the American people are not stupid and they do not fall into the fear and distortions that a group like the tea partiers thrive on. As time progresses I just don't see this movement having much staying power. The American people as a whole will continue to realize that Obama is not the evil dictator that he has been portrayed as. There will be an amount of Upper-middle class voters over a certain age that will never accept Obama or his agenda but they will become fewer and fewer.

The far right wanted to paint the Healthcare debate as Barack Obama's Waterloo. Where they could disable his presidency and send him to the history books a one term president. However, I beleive the opposite will occur. By being the party simply of opposition, and losing that battle they have empowered Obama to pursue his agneda which Americans will continue to find is not radical, dangerous, or communist. Not to mention the economy IS rebounding and that will have a huge effect on voter psyche come November.

I could have it all wrong, but this is the way I see it.

Last edited by dsrich98; 04-02-2010 at 06:40 AM.. Reason: power to the people
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-02-2010, 06:10 AM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 23,108,584 times
Reputation: 3889
Quote:
Originally Posted by smithy77 View Post
Is it legitimate? Yeah. I think they need to come up with a coherent set of solutions instead of just positioning themselves as an opposition group. I know who and what they're against, but, other than a broad outline of their principles, it isn't clear what they're for, or how they intend to implement their goals. From the outside, it seems that they're a hodge-podge of disaffected middle-aged white folks with as many issues as there are people in the organization. Politically, they seem to be all over the place---libertarians, far-right wing conservatives, militia group types, angry vets, anti-tax advocates, anti-health care folks, gold-standard folks, anti-immigration people, anti one-world government types and the usual group of paranoid schitzophrenics and terribly disturbed people who usually gravitiate to political movements on the fringe. They certainly have a right to exist, but I'm bothered by the more strident extremists among them. Groups like this pop up from time to time in American history, but they are usually co-opted by the larger political parties, or they collapse because of internal political infighting (already an issue from what I've read) over control of the group, and the inevitable undercurrent of paranoia. I also doubt that the group would exist without generous funding from behind the scenes front groups like 'Freedom Works' or the (free) organizational skills of Fox News and talk radio. I think their power will peak during this election cycle, but their power will eventually wane because of the passage of the health care bill, since 'Freedom Works' was heavily subsidized by the health insurance industry.
Wow - great post!

I do think the time is right, right now, for The Tea Party Movement to really pick up steam and grow. Regardless of whether we like the details of the Health Care Bill, it's alarming how Congress went about ramming it through. But you make an excellent point about it being focused on what they're all against. It's easy to scream and holler about what you're against, but pursuing a vision of how to improve things is much more difficult.

I think you're also right about their power peaking during this election cycle. I truly hope there are a lot of incumbents voted out of office this November. And I think The Tea Party Movement will have a lot to do with that. But I doubt that we'll hear much from them after the end of this year.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-02-2010, 06:16 AM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 23,108,584 times
Reputation: 3889
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsrich98 View Post
I think they are legitimate. However I don't think that thy are going to have a lot of staying power. In my opinion I think they are a fear group. They are a rag tag group of people brought together with one thing in common, fear.

The greatest uniter they have had is opposition to this healthcare bill, but what do they intend to do about it? Repealing it is totally unrealistic. It is here to sttay. Moreover once it starts rolling out people are going to see that it is not the horrbile thing that that they had made it out to be.

They've painted themselves into a corner. Their entire potency is based on this idea that Barack Obama is a radical socialist, perhaps even a facist. Which is simply wrong. Barack is no different than any other democratic mainstream politician and he is proving it now. In the coming months now that Healthcare is passed I predict you will see more efforts from Obama to regain the support of middle of the road and even conservative voters. We've seen some of this already with his surprise trip to Afghanistan to rally the troops, and his announcment of expanded off-shore oil drilling. It will be much like the "triangulation" that Bill Clinton pulled off that gained him a second term and a very successful presidency. Even if the Democrats lose the House, Senate, or Both; I predict Obama will win a second term and advance key parts of his agenda.

Most of the American people are not stupid and they do not fall into the fear and distortions that a group like the tea partiers thrive on. As time progresses I just don't see this movement having much staying power. The American people as a whole will continue to realize that Obama is not the evil dictator that he has been portrayed as. There will be an amount of Upper-middle class voters over a certain age that will never accept Obama or his agenda but they will become fewer and fewer.

The far right wanted to paint the Healthcare debate as Barack Obama's Waterloo. Where they could disable his presidency and send him to the history books a one term president. However, I beleive the opposite will occur. By being the party simply of opposition, and losing that battle they have empowered Obama to pursue his agneda which Americans will continue to find is not radical, dangerous, or communist. Not to mention the economy IS rebounding and that will have a huge effect on voter psyche come November.

I could have it all wrong, but this is the way I see it.
Very good points! Obviously, we're thinking the same thing about The Tea Party Movement's staying power.

I do think it's very likely that the Democrats will lose the majority in Congress, as a result of November's election. And I hope they do, not because they're Democrats but because I honestly believe the way they went about ramming the Healthcare Legislation through was wrong.

On the other hand, I don't think that President Obama's chances of being re-elected rest on Health-Care, or on the effects of The Tea Party Movement. It's the economy. If there is recovery that is more than media rhetoric, Obama is a 2-termer. If not, he doesn't stand an ice cube's chance in hell.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-02-2010, 06:49 AM
 
Location: Here
704 posts, read 1,614,051 times
Reputation: 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
Very good points! Obviously, we're thinking the same thing about The Tea Party Movement's staying power.

I do think it's very likely that the Democrats will lose the majority in Congress, as a result of November's election. And I hope they do, not because they're Democrats but because I honestly believe the way they went about ramming the Healthcare Legislation through was wrong.

On the other hand, I don't think that President Obama's chances of being re-elected rest on Health-Care, or on the effects of The Tea Party Movement. It's the economy. If there is recovery that is more than media rhetoric, Obama is a 2-termer. If not, he doesn't stand an ice cube's chance in hell.

Like I told my co-workers after Obama was elected when they were saying he would certainly be a one-termer; the economy will be on it's way back and that is going to go a long way to decide whether he will be re-eleceted or not. It's not because Obama will fix the economy or because Democrats are in power. It's because there are cycles to the economy, and it will be on the rebound in in 2012, probably in a big way.

Has anyone noticed how the Dow has been climbing since the Healtchcare bill passed? Clearly big business is not as afraid of this thing as the tea partiers are.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-02-2010, 07:00 AM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 23,108,584 times
Reputation: 3889
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsrich98 View Post
Like I told my co-workers after Obama was elected when they were saying he would certainly be a one-termer; the economy will be on it's way back and that is going to go a long way to decide whether he will be re-eleceted or not. It's not because Obama will fix the economy or because Democrats are in power. It's because there are cycles to the economy, and it will be on the rebound in in 2012, probably in a big way.

Has anyone noticed how the Dow has been climbing since the Healtchcare bill passed? Clearly big business is not as afraid of this thing as the tea partiers are.
Right.

The President is nowhere near as closely connected to the economy as many people believe. But "It's the economy, stupid" certainly does make a great political catch-phrase.

If I was a betting man, I'd say Obama is a 2-termer based solely on the fact that I think (maybe it's wishful thinking) that the economic cycle will be much better in 2 years. That's the way cycles go.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-02-2010, 07:44 AM
 
Location: Nebraska
4,231 posts, read 7,243,410 times
Reputation: 6685
I don't have much faith in the future of the United States. The "Freedoms" that our past patriots fought and died for were not things like Gay marriage, abortion, free health care etc. In the first two hundred years of the existence of the United States we were a people always wanting to expand our horizons. A few people in the 17th century came here looking for a better life. There was a sense of adventure present in a large percentage of the population then that doesn't seem to be present today. That sense of adventure led Americans to settle in to new and often hostile environments. It created conditions that allowed a level of prosperity never seen before in history. In the 20th century it culminated in sending Men to the moon. Now that spirit of adventure has been replaced by a desire for security. In the past risk takers with an idea of how to build a better gadget or provide a better service were rewarded. Now there is an attitude that those people must be punished. . ." Tax the hell out of those that dare to have the gall to create a business that might allow them to make a better living than the rest of us. Why should that guy have a better house than I have? After all I have the same rights he does." Sound familiar? I just don't see a bright future for a nation that is willing to settle for "security" instead of opportunity.

GL2
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-02-2010, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Here
704 posts, read 1,614,051 times
Reputation: 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunluvver2 View Post
I don't have much faith in the future of the United States. The "Freedoms" that our past patriots fought and died for were not things like Gay marriage, abortion, free health care etc. In the first two hundred years of the existence of the United States we were a people always wanting to expand our horizons. A few people in the 17th century came here looking for a better life. There was a sense of adventure present in a large percentage of the population then that doesn't seem to be present today. That sense of adventure led Americans to settle in to new and often hostile environments. It created conditions that allowed a level of prosperity never seen before in history. In the 20th century it culminated in sending Men to the moon. Now that spirit of adventure has been replaced by a desire for security. In the past risk takers with an idea of how to build a better gadget or provide a better service were rewarded. Now there is an attitude that those people must be punished. . ." Tax the hell out of those that dare to have the gall to create a business that might allow them to make a better living than the rest of us. Why should that guy have a better house than I have? After all I have the same rights he does." Sound familiar? I just don't see a bright future for a nation that is willing to settle for "security" instead of opportunity.

GL2
I think I understand what you trying to say here. But I would ask, where are we supposed to be looking for new opportunites? The world is more or less settled now. And it's interesting that you would cite traveling to the moon as an example of the America that you love. Wasn't that a huge government funded expenditure? Where's our sense of adventure supposed to lead us? To settle the ocean floor? Build a starbucks on the Mars?

The innovation now is to find clean energy, or a solution to global warming. These are the challenges of the 21st centruy. We are looking for new technology now. The scientist working on bio-fuel, wind power, solar power. these are the real pioneers today. The American dream is alive, it just is pursuing a different goal than it did in the past. To pin our goals on the goals of our forefathers would be folly. We live in a completely different world than they did. There are elements of their dream that are timeless, and elements that would be foolish for us to dedicate ourselves to in this day and age.

Certainly we must be wary of raising taxes so high that we are punishing investment and innovation. But we are nowhere close to that right now. The taxes that are being talked about right now would put us back to the level that we had under Reagan. And still far lower than we had in the 40's and 50's, which seems to be the time period eveyone gets all gushy about.

I would agree we should not just seek a sense of security. That is why we should not be giving so many of our civil liberties and nation's fortune away in this battle against an enemy that we can't truly defeat. I believe we are at much greater risk of losing our freedom and fortune to this battle against terrorism, than the idea that we would provide healthcare to people who can't afford it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-02-2010, 09:38 AM
 
Location: Omaha Nebraska and dreamland when I am sleeping
3,096 posts, read 6,461,703 times
Reputation: 524
the Tea Party Movement I believe is legitimate
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Nebraska > Omaha
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top