Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Negative opinions tend to be more vocal. I've read enough stories of some bar chick asking if the guy owns a ferrari and then turning her back on him. I doubt this is the norm. Does anyone actually enjoy the "high income" cultures of the OC?
I know that when we visit our more well off family friends, I see no issues with the way they live. They don't live in a beach city area but they are definitely upper middle income.
In general they are good natured people. I do feel that they place more importance on their status than we do, but it's not over the top. I also see it as an "attitude of success". The parents are a lot more sharp and success minded than my parents are. Maybe I'm naive but it does not seem like a bad thing to me and in some ways is actually inspirational.
I'm sure that a more success minded culture has its negatives just like any other place. Am I wrong to believe the good outweighs the bad? Does anyone like the aggressive culture of the OC's wealthy areas?
When you look at the numbers, the median incomes of inland OC aren't that much higher than a lot of inland LA. Here are the median incomes for several inland south Orange County communities.
What does seem to matter is that it is newer and has benefited from better planning, market research, and technology. Instead of slapped together neighborhoods in LA with hodge podge locations of homes and car repair and restaurants and preschools all on the same street, you have distinct areas for each type of activity.
I like community cultures that value aesthetics
I like community cultures that value safety
I like community cultures that value good schools
I like community cultures that value master planning
I like community cultures that value safe intersections
I like community cultures that value distinct zoning (similar retail here, residential there, car repair over there, industrial back there, commercial over there,...)
I like community cultures that value landscaped medians, buried power lines, banned billboards
Finally (before someone barks "...cookie cutter...SUV...minivan...boring...") , I couldn't care less if a community was walkable. Walkable often means dense, dirty, loud, cigarette smoke, gaudy, impractical, homeless, not family friendly, urine odors, expensive, and stressful.
When you look at the numbers, the median incomes of inland OC aren't that much higher than a lot of inland LA. Here are the median incomes for several inland south Orange County communities.
What does seem to matter is that it is newer and has benefited from better planning, market research, and technology. Instead of slapped together neighborhoods in LA with hodge podge locations of homes and car repair and restaurants and preschools all on the same street, you have distinct areas for each type of activity.
I like community cultures that value aesthetics
I like community cultures that value safety
I like community cultures that value good schools
I like community cultures that value master planning
I like community cultures that value safe intersections
I like community cultures that value distinct zoning (similar retail here, residential there, car repair over there, industrial back there, commercial over there,...)
I like community cultures that value landscaped medians, buried power lines, banned billboards
Finally (before someone barks "...cookie cutter...SUV...minivan...boring...") , I couldn't care less if a community was walkable. Walkable often means dense, dirty, loud, cigarette smoke, gaudy, impractical, homeless, not family friendly, urine odors, expensive, and stressful.
I think true wealthy areas are success minded. Most of the inland southern oc towns are not wealthy though. They are mostly middle to upper middle class. They are also not what I would call success minded. I see it more as materialism...people buying things they can't afford to appear wealthy.
To the comment about walkable neighborhoods there are many walkable neighborhoods that are family friendly. The only reason I could see giving up the culture, character, and walkability of more established neighborhoods particluarly those near the water is if I couldn't afford the size house I required. You definitely get more space for your dollar in the tract housing.
But I like cities with downtowns. I like the mix of different residential, retail, etc in a area. I like custom houses or at least neighborhoods where the majority of houses look different because they've been remodeled over the years.
I'm sure that a more success minded culture has its negatives just like any other place. Am I wrong to believe the good outweighs the bad? Does anyone like the aggressive culture of the OC's wealthy areas?[/quote]
To be materially successful through owning your own business, requires highest confidence in your belief, that you will be successful. You are then single mindedly focused to make it happen. In that process, you go through major highs and lows, that tests your confidence. That confidence, breeds more confidence over time, as you remain on course, and experience success.
Ultimately it could reach a point, that borders on what could be perceived as 'cockiness' to others. The businessman would call that 'confidence'. It is just a byproduct, of all that this person has gone through, to get there.
To answer your question, it is resoundingly 'Yes', the good outweighs the 'bad'. In short: success breeds success, so might as well live near the wealthy, if you can afford. Orange County's wealthy areas are no different, than any other wealthy areas of the nation. It's not the area, it's the occupants.
They are mostly middle to upper middle class. They are also not what I would call success minded. I see it more as materialism...people buying things they can't afford to appear wealthy.
Naples: How would you know? That's painting with a broad brush.....
Those upper middle class and middle class people have entrepreuners among them. They pretty much go through the same process as the upper class wealthy, except, at a smaller scale. The struggle is the same, and therefore, the end results....success or set back, just different scale.
Requires the same confidence, regardless of the size of the business.
I think true wealthy areas are success minded. Most of the inland southern oc towns are not wealthy though. They are mostly middle to upper middle class. They are also not what I would call success minded. I see it more as materialism...people buying things they can't afford to appear wealthy.
To the comment about walkable neighborhoods there are many walkable neighborhoods that are family friendly. The only reason I could see giving up the culture, character, and walkability of more established neighborhoods particluarly those near the water is if I couldn't afford the size house I required. You definitely get more space for your dollar in the tract housing.
But I like cities with downtowns. I like the mix of different residential, retail, etc in a area. I like custom houses or at least neighborhoods where the majority of houses look different because they've been remodeled over the years.
I guess we just have different tastes.
Yup, thats exactly it. Its all materialism plain and simple. People wanting the BMW, big house, exclusive area blah blah blah.
I think true wealthy areas are success minded. Most of the inland southern oc towns are not wealthy though. They are mostly middle to upper middle class. They are also not what I would call success minded. I see it more as materialism...people buying things they can't afford to appear wealthy.
To the comment about walkable neighborhoods there are many walkable neighborhoods that are family friendly. The only reason I could see giving up the culture, character, and walkability of more established neighborhoods particluarly those near the water is if I couldn't afford the size house I required. You definitely get more space for your dollar in the tract housing.
But I like cities with downtowns. I like the mix of different residential, retail, etc in a area. I like custom houses or at least neighborhoods where the majority of houses look different because they've been remodeled over the years.
I guess we just have different tastes.
So then upper middle class is not wealthy? Southern OC is a very wealthy area by most measures. It is not uniformly wealthy - not all people have high incomes - but considering most of the cities listed in Charles' post have median incomes 150% of the US median income, I would say that reflects a pretty good degree of wealth.
The debt fuelled materialism is an effect of this fact. People want to live in these nice areas and fit in with the wealthy residents, so they try to keep up with the Jones - even if the Jones make 2x what they do. You can keep up the illusions until you are hit with a layoff or other bump in the road and then.......
As for succes-minded you are very wrong there. The family dominated culture of south OC is all about success. Parents are often measured by the prestige of the colleges their kids are admitted to. They brag when their kid gets into Stanford, Yale or Berkley and if - god forbid - they don't go to college, their tales of woe are met with pitiful stares and commiserations. Kids are pushed pushed pushed to succeed. Good grades, community activities, sports and extacirriculars are the focus. All to build a desireable profile for the college admissions offices at the elite schools they will soon apply to.
OC is a very competitive and success focused culture.
Negative opinions tend to be more vocal. I've read enough stories of some bar chick asking if the guy owns a ferrari and then turning her back on him. I doubt this is the norm. Does anyone actually enjoy the "high income" cultures of the OC?
I know that when we visit our more well off family friends, I see no issues with the way they live. They don't live in a beach city area but they are definitely upper middle income.
In general they are good natured people. I do feel that they place more importance on their status than we do, but it's not over the top. I also see it as an "attitude of success". The parents are a lot more sharp and success minded than my parents are. Maybe I'm naive but it does not seem like a bad thing to me and in some ways is actually inspirational.
I'm sure that a more success minded culture has its negatives just like any other place. Am I wrong to believe the good outweighs the bad? Does anyone like the aggressive culture of the OC's wealthy areas?
I enjoy some of the aspects of OC's success culture. The wealth it creates leads to alot of beautiful public spaces and other amenitites to enjoy in the area. You also meet alot of really neat people and if you keep an open mind, you can learn quite a bit. The people who are successful are often interesting and nice to be around. Not always, but often.
The downside can be the other people attracted to the scene- the hangers on, the posers, the resentful who always show up when there is money around. There is also the crass and the self important enjoying their new found - and often fleeting - success. It's usually easy to distinguish them quickly and move on, but they are a drag.
I've lived in poor areas and rich. Its easy to decide which one I prefer....
Interesting thread. I love living in south county because of that drive, but I do see the areas where it's just taken too far. Like OC Investor said, the whole college track thing is out of control; kids have it drilled into their heads that unless they take all AP classes, have hundreds of hours of community service, are involved in a slew of extracurriculars, have two years foreign language, and super-high test scores, they'll never get into college. Couple it with the fact that a lot of the major universities are enacting enrollment limits each year, and the whole situation takes on an air of desperation.
At the same time, there is also great opportunity and inspiration to pursue more in life. I've lived places where the general population had low expectations for their futures, and some that even tried to pull down those who had any aspirations of doing more. To live in an environment where reaching for goals and following inspirations is encouraged is fantastic.
I think it boils down to how confident you are in yourself, and whether you're going to let the less pleasant aspects of the society get to you. I don't desire the expensive car or the palatial house; I'm happy with an older home in which I can really express my creativity, and a dependable car. I don't want my things to chain me down from pursuing what I want and enjoying my life. If someone doesn't like that my car is average and my kid wants to take his core classes at Saddleback, then they need a serious priority check. Besides, that kid just composed a piece for string quartet. I'm not too worried about his future.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Success breeds success
