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For ten plus years it was magical. We loved everything about it. However my wife missed the seasons. After ten or fifteen years, we started having some misgivings. The once exotic looking palm trees started looking like telephone poles with green hats. The beaches lost their appeal as we got tired of waiting in lines, hunting hours for a parking space, bumping into tourists constantly, and some of us did not like all the scantily clad perfect looking young women running around all over the place. That coupled with sand all over and sunburns, made it hardly worthwhile to go. Traffic, and the rush rush rush lifestye began to wear us out.
Eventually we moved back to Michigan for a myriad of reasons:
1. Kids did not really know grandma and grandpa and aunts and uncles. I particularly regretted depriving Mom and Dad of their grandkids for 15 years. At times, I wish that we had never left for this reason. (Dad adores his grandkids and most of them are our kids - all but 1).
2. Looking for a more wholesome atmosphere to raise our children, especially int he high school years. Wanted to get away from materialism, rampant luttiness amongst girls, hyper competitiveness and the whole living in an ant farm type of life style. We wanted them to grow up laying in rivers, lakes and forests, not in parking lots streets and occasional visits to a park or beach.
3. We did miss some things from the midwest/east:
Greenness.
Trees.
Rivers lakes and ponds that have water in them and it is not dyed or chlorinated.
Clean air.
Clean water.
Not waiting in lines.
Not hunting and competing for parking spaces.
Driving 70 plus on a freeway for more than a few feet.
Puffy Clouds.
Lightening and thunder storms
Weather. Mostly my wife missed having weather. She found perfect every day interminably boring. She really missed the changing seasons, especially fall.
Small towns with character.
White Christmas
Canoeing and Kayaking
On the other hand we really miss some things about Orange County. Not so much me, becuase I spend about 15 weeks a year in the area, but the rest of the family:
1. Friends
2. Weather (especially in about March).
3. Resturuants - this was a big one. People in OC do not rrealize how great they have it in regard to availability of a huge variety of bars, resturuants and stores (all with lines, but loads of options).
4. Mountains. Another big one.
5. Awesome places within a 1 day drive (Yosemite, Kings Canyon/Sequoia, Zion, Grand Canyon, Las Vegas, Mexico, San Diego, Catalina, even some things in LA). We have a few Niagara falls, Mammoth caves, and Cedar Point are nearby, but nothing like OC.
6. great fresh produce available all year - but this is partly compensated for the local vegetable stands along the roads with some of the best food you will ever taste (e.g. Michigan sweet corn, cherries, blueberries).
7. Growing roses all year round (we had 70 and they grew and bloomed like crazy).
8. OCHSA. Schools here are generally better with some exceptions, but there is nothing like OCHSA.
9. L.A. (kinda) although we did not love LA, it was nice to have some of the events etc. available. Detroit has more professional sports teams (if you call the Lions professional) and a great theater district (supposedly second only to Broadway - not sure if true), but not as much going on as LA. Chicago has more going on than LA, but it is 5 hours away.
10. Ocean. Yes we have great lakes (and you can afford to live on/near water), but it is not the same as the ocean, plus for part of the year all being near a lake does is make you colder.
11. Hummingbirds and wild parrots in large numbers. (Lightening bugs help compensate for that one).
12. An economy.
SoCal I think is much better as single guy, than as for family life.
As a 31 year old guy, the idea of women who stay good looking longer (I'm talking naturally) and are single longer since guys are more supposedly more commitment phobic and don't haven't grown up with the same gentleman-skills sounds like a good deal. In the midwest, its gets a little more slim pickins by 30. It wasn't for women divorcing the wrong guy, 30+ guys would really be screwed (or not in this case!).
I live near Chicago. (And love the Detroit area). I disagree with your assertion that Chicago has more going on than LA. That is absolutely. DOWNTOWN Chicago definitely has more going on DOWNTOWN LA, but LA as a whole city has way more than Chicago going on as a WHOLE city.
Yeah, LA is not as big of a sport town. But sports are for guys night out. Not for getting to know the ladies.
And these days, I wouldn't say SoCal has a HUGE economic advantage. Michigan, although hit earlier and harder by the recession is recovering better than most places.
And these days, I wouldn't say SoCal has a HUGE economic advantage. Michigan, although hit earlier and harder by the recession is recovering better than most places.
IF you were to rate economies one to ten, Orange County started at 9.99999 and fell to maybe 5 or 6. Detroit Metro started at 5 or 6 and only fell to 4. So while it did not fall as far, it is still worse off. However as an entity, California is in far more trouble financially than Michigan is. California has the advantage of in infrastructure that is starting in an excellent position, while Michigan was falling behind before the crash.
However metro Detroit is picking back up a bit, while it is very difficult to tell what is happening in Orange County. Sometimes it appears to get a bit of a spark, then it seems like it is going the other way.
I agree that Orange County is one of the best places to live in the world if you are between 20 and about 33-35, especially if you are single or dinks. We loved everything about it during that time and felt that we would never even think about living anywhere else. However OC changed a little and we changed a lot (had 5 kids) and suddenly priorities are different plus the exoticness, and magic wore off. I even found myself agreeing with my wife occasionally when she said "Dang she needs to put on some clothes!" There has definitely been a change in the past ten years as well. Fashions moved more and more towards hooker wear (by the way, not saying these girls are slutty, just saying they look slutty - that is obviously how they are trying to look. However jumping on a fashion trend does not necessarily mean that they act slutty. ). This moved into younger and younger ages. Girls in 6th grade go to school wearing heavy heavy makeup, low cut blouses and sprayed on short shorts. They want to look like their older siblings or mother. The look nearly identical to street walkers. At camp in 6th grade our daughters were asked why they were not wearing G strings like most of the other girls. "Dont you want to look sexy?" This was church camp.
Big difference here. Pretty much everyone wears jeans and a T-shirt or a normal blouse. If girls dressed like they typically do in high school in OC they would be sent home (in Jr. high it would not be an issue - doesn't happen.). It is a very different atmosphere.
In answer to the other comment (didn't you know what it was like when you moved here?) No. We had not concern for schools and things were different). When we moved to OC we were in our early 20s and just about to get married. How kids dressed in the schools was not even on our radar screen. However it also changed considerably since we moved there.
I think it is funny how so many people hang on the negative comments. Overall we found OC to be a great place for most of 18 years. We had no regrets about moving there more most of that time. In the last few years, we did develop some regrets, mostly family related. Yet some people act as if we are saying that it is awful. That is not what we said, but yes there are some negatives. It is not perfect, and, as your priorities change, you could end up having some regrets about moving to OC. It depends on you.
Some people will say "No way" I will never ever have any regrets" We said that too. We felt the same way that pretty much all recent relocaters feel. For about 15 or 16 years. Some people becoem disenchanted and have regrets sooner, some people never do. However if w did not have kids and did not have family in Michigan, we would probably still live in Orange County. (Unless we visited Seattle, then we well may have moved there).
Last edited by Coldjensens; 08-17-2011 at 03:03 PM..
When we moved to CA we were not aware that jr. high school girls commonly dress like hookers in the public schools. We were not aware that our daugters would be considered prudes by eighth grade because they were determined to remain chaste until marriage.
There is an new thing called the inner net and girls in every state dress exactly the same, no matter if you keep them hidden away on a farm, or walking down a California street.
A new California fashion today, will be world wide fashion by morning, so moving doesn't change dress styles...
There is an new thing called the inner net and girls in every state dress exactly the same, no matter if you keep them hidden away on a farm, or walking down a California street.
A new California fashion today, will be world wide fashion by morning, so moving doesn't change dress styles...
Unfortunately, I think this may also be true of attitude and behavior in general??
There is an new thing called the inner net and girls in every state dress exactly the same, no matter if you keep them hidden away on a farm, or walking down a California street.
A new California fashion today, will be world wide fashion by morning, so moving doesn't change dress styles...
Actuallythis is not true. Morals and values differ in different areas. Sometimes people on both coasts have an egocentric viewpoint that results in the belief that everyone wants to look and act like them. Fortunately, this is untrue. As I mentioned, where we live now, if you go to the hgh school you will see no bare bellies, nearly bare breasts, sprayed on short shorts. You do not see Jr. high school girls caked in makes up that makes them look like hookers. In fact, almost no girls wear any make up before high school. If kids dress the way many do in CA public schools, they are sent home or held in the office until someone brings them some other clothing. Boys with underwear sticking out of their pants or bare chests are not going to remain in school that way. Girls with bare bellies, exposed breasts, anything above their knees, are not tolerated. It is a distraction to learning and farily strictly enforced. Someone who declares themselves committed to remaining chaste and wears a promise ring is not ridiculed, they are either simply respected for their choice or more often just not reacted to at all. The moral atmoshere and general values are very different here. Hard work and community service are lauded above fashion and possession of name brand items. Sure there is some of that, but it is not the overriding criteria for acceptance.
Actuallythis is not true. Morals and values differ in different areas. Sometimes people on both coasts have an egocentric viewpoint that results in the belief that everyone wants to look and act like them. Fortunately, this is untrue. As I mentioned, where we live now, if you go to the hgh school you will see no bare bellies, nearly bare breasts, sprayed on short shorts. You do not see Jr. high school girls caked in makes up that makes them look like hookers. In fact, almost no girls wear any make up before high school. If kids dress the way many do in CA public schools, they are sent home or held in the office until someone brings them some other clothing. Boys with underwear sticking out of their pants or bare chests are not going to remain in school that way. Girls with bare bellies, exposed breasts, anything above their knees, are not tolerated. It is a distraction to learning and farily strictly enforced. Someone who declares themselves committed to remaining chaste and wears a promise ring is not ridiculed, they are either simply respected for their choice or more often just not reacted to at all. The moral atmoshere and general values are very different here. Hard work and community service are lauded above fashion and possession of name brand items. Sure there is some of that, but it is not the overriding criteria for acceptance.
Agreed. That has been my experience, as well. The fallacy is assuming that "everyone does it."
Coldjensens, it doesn't sound like your time in CA was a mistake, it just sounds like your life and priorities changed and so you moved on to the next phase. You certainly gave it more than a fair chance, LOL! I had this type of convo with a co-worker from Philly who moved to SoCal at the same time I did. He was a guy in his 20's who loved living in Hermosa Beach, enjoying the bachelor lifestyle and surfing every day. We both loved CA and said we'd never move back. Then we'd vacillate....eventually, after two years, I did move back. He ended up staying and marrying a SoCal native. A few years later, he moved back with her....I was surprised he convinced her to leave. His reasons were the cost of housing and just generally not wanting to raise his kids there. We both long for CA, but it has changed so much....it wouldn't be the same if we went back. I consider it an adventure and opportunity, and one that I'm glad I took at the time, but it wasn't meant to be long-term. I don't have any regrets at all, except wishing I had spent more time there.
Coldjensens, it doesn't sound like your time in CA was a mistake, it just sounds like your life and priorities changed and so you moved on to the next phase. You certainly gave it more than a fair chance, LOL! I had this type of convo with a co-worker from Philly who moved to SoCal at the same time I did. He was a guy in his 20's who loved living in Hermosa Beach, enjoying the bachelor lifestyle and surfing every day. We both loved CA and said we'd never move back. Then we'd vacillate....eventually, after two years, I did move back. He ended up staying and marrying a SoCal native. A few years later, he moved back with her....I was surprised he convinced her to leave. His reasons were the cost of housing and just generally not wanting to raise his kids there. We both long for CA, but it has changed so much....it wouldn't be the same if we went back. I consider it an adventure and opportunity, and one that I'm glad I took at the time, but it wasn't meant to be long-term. I don't have any regrets at all, except wishing I had spent more time there.
Not a mistake. I still work in So. Cal sometimes and live in OC when I am working there, so I only halfway left. It is a great place, particularly when you are single or dinks. If our family all grew up and left Michigan, I am not sure whether we would consider moving back to OC. It is a push to me. I guess I would leave it up to my wife. There are a lot of places I would like to live. Michigan is nice, OC is nice, San Diego is nice. Seattle is nice, Montana, Massachussetts, Charleston SC, Franklin Tennessee. There are so many places I would be happy to live. I still ahve nto been to Oregon or Florida, I might add to that list.
I like much of OC have family that lives there. I enjoy my visits but could never afford to live there anymore even if I wanted to. That and the decline of California's once Golden stature and dominant political party ruined the place for me as a place to raise a family so we left (both CA natives). I do miss the weather though.
I've been here four years now. Not really any regrets, but I'll most likely end up in L.A. in a few years once the kids are in college, simply because the lifestyle down here just isn't me. But the kids are thriving in a great school with amazing opportunities, so it's worth a few years of living here and making the drive up north until they've flown the coop. But there's no denying that it's freaking gorgeous down here, and I feel insanely spoiled being a short hop from the beach after three quarters of my life living in the desert!
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