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Specifically, I will be moving with my family to include a few elementary school age kids from northern new jersey. I will have an option to relocate to either southern california or northern virginia. My kids are very involved in sports - football, wrestling, baseball, etc. They perform very well in the area, but I want them to focus more on academics. In northern new jersey, its hard to stay competitive without training almost year round and joining specialized clubs. The kids, to include the others that they train with, are almost like younger versions of pro athletes in terms of hours, training regimen, etc.
Is orange county similar in terms of having overly competitive parents / kids with respect to sports? I played a sport at a DI college, but didn't really get serious about it until high school. In all honesty, many of the kids around here are training harder and more serious at ages of 10 and under than what I did as a teenager. In northern new jersey it seems that kids that want to do well in an area, such as sports, academics, arts, etc., need to dedicate all their efforts into it. The school I went to is also top 10 for academics, which is what I really focused on and want my kids to focus on as well. That said, I want them to be well-rounded and play sports, but not in an environment where everyone wants to be the next peyton manning, cael sanderson, or alex rodriguez.
Any insights into the orange county youth sports culture would be much appreciated.
The youth sports are excellent. There is football(Pop Warner - Orange Empire Conference), baseball(each town has its own, usually Pony, Little League, or Cal Ripken), wrestling(CAGWA), lacrosse(new big sport), basketball(NJB), soccer(AYSO, club), etc. Like anywhere else, there are some parents that take it over the top. My suggestion is that if you want to combat that, coach your kids teams. It's what I do.
Some sports will be tough to break into in high school without being part of the special political parental group(particularly CIF D1 baseball and soccer), but it can be done. Wrestling, on the other hand, is fairly easy since the vast majority of high school wrestlers have never wrestled before(I was on varsity as a freshman because I wrestled since I was 10, and it hasn't changed from a youth sports perspective in the 10 years since I've graduated)
Thanks for the great post. A few follow-up questions:
For football, how is participation at the youth level (8, 9, 10, 11 year olds) in orange county? In new jersey, many of the towns have less than 10k people, each with its own youth football team. That means that 15-20 kids per group level is a great turnout, but also means that every kids gets meaningful participation. I looked at the town sizes in southern ca, Irvine has over 200k people. Are there in-town only leagues? Irvine alone would be almost 25% of bergen county in nj, which probably has 50+ youth teams.
For wrestling, are there any year-round clubs? In northern nj, there are at least 3 high level year-round clubs that actively participate at national and regional level events. The kids that go there are all top notch. There are probably another 20+ lower profile clubs, but each with highly qualified coaches. Also, is wrestling in orange county popular at the youth level? If a kid or kids were really serious at around 10 year old level, would they have any real competition? In northern nj, all age and weight groups have serious competition. I'm curious if its worth keeping up as a youth sport if its not that widely accepted in orange county.
For baseball, do the high level players specialize in baseball only or do they play other sports? I know what you mean about the politics/parents to get onto the right teams. Are they typically baseball families that have aspirations of baseball beyond college or is there a reasonable group of youth baseball participants that just happen to be good but also play other sports?
For football, how is participation at the youth level (8, 9, 10, 11 year olds) in orange county? In new jersey, many of the towns have less than 10k people, each with its own youth football team. That means that 15-20 kids per group level is a great turnout, but also means that every kids gets meaningful participation. I looked at the town sizes in southern ca, Irvine has over 200k people. Are there in-town only leagues? Irvine alone would be almost 25% of bergen county in nj, which probably has 50+ youth teams.
Pop Warner is the only game in town for tackle that I know of. In that, each city has a team part of a more or less county wide league. Irvine does not have a team, but that means you can go to nearby areas that do(Saddleback Pop Warner most likely). Friday Night Lights is popular flag football, and is more or less in-town only. As far as the number of kids, it depends. Saddleback might field up to 4 teams at a level. I think the teams cap out around 30 kids or so. Los Alamitos might have 25 kids total per level, because it's a small town of ~10k.
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For wrestling, are there any year-round clubs? In northern nj, there are at least 3 high level year-round clubs that actively participate at national and regional level events. The kids that go there are all top notch. There are probably another 20+ lower profile clubs, but each with highly qualified coaches. Also, is wrestling in orange county popular at the youth level? If a kid or kids were really serious at around 10 year old level, would they have any real competition? In northern nj, all age and weight groups have serious competition. I'm curious if its worth keeping up as a youth sport if its not that widely accepted in orange county.
CAGWA takes all levels and is the only league in town that I know of. Some kids go to state and win, some kids are just there for the exercise(not everyone is required to compete). There should definitely be some serious competition available at most meets. As far as the coaches, my team they were very knowledgeable, all of them former collegiate wrestlers. Keep in mind that CAGWA is freestyle. CAGWA operates year-round from what I know, but I only did it as a winter sport(football, baseball rest of the year). It is not widely practiced in OC, but there are/were numerous OC teams(Fullerton and Orange the biggest in my time).
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For baseball, do the high level players specialize in baseball only or do they play other sports? I know what you mean about the politics/parents to get onto the right teams. Are they typically baseball families that have aspirations of baseball beyond college or is there a reasonable group of youth baseball participants that just happen to be good but also play other sports?
I played all 3 of my sports in high school, but I was unusual in that regard. Maybe 10-20% play two sports, I would think, and some practice with other teams during the offseason for extra conditioning or training(not unusual to see linemen training with the wrestling team). The kids that I know that are the highly rated travel ball kids generally play 1 sport most years, but they burn out of baseball quick like that(seen it numerous times). Some play baseball/football, but that can hurt your chances at the high school level if you have a coach that lets the politics get to him. Keep in mind that I'm saying this from my experience as a student and a parent at a CIF D1 school with over 3000 kids in the school, which obviously makes precious spots on sports teams highly competitive. Smaller schools will obviously be better off, and lower division schools might make it easier.
On a personal note, I think the multisport route is a great route. Wrestling made me a better football player and kept my in great shape overall, baseball improved my hand-eye coordination and gave me a break from the rigors of football and wrestling, and football gave me a great deal of agility that the other sports don't. Football coaches generally don't like it much because they go year-round, but wrestling and baseball coaches never had a problem with it for me.
Specifically, I will be moving with my family to include a few elementary school age kids from northern new jersey. I will have an option to relocate to either southern california or northern virginia. My kids are very involved in sports - football, wrestling, baseball, etc. They perform very well in the area, but I want them to focus more on academics. In northern new jersey, its hard to stay competitive without training almost year round and joining specialized clubs. The kids, to include the others that they train with, are almost like younger versions of pro athletes in terms of hours, training regimen, etc.
Is orange county similar in terms of having overly competitive parents / kids with respect to sports? I played a sport at a DI college, but didn't really get serious about it until high school. In all honesty, many of the kids around here are training harder and more serious at ages of 10 and under than what I did as a teenager. In northern new jersey it seems that kids that want to do well in an area, such as sports, academics, arts, etc., need to dedicate all their efforts into it. The school I went to is also top 10 for academics, which is what I really focused on and want my kids to focus on as well. That said, I want them to be well-rounded and play sports, but not in an environment where everyone wants to be the next peyton manning, cael sanderson, or alex rodriguez.
Any insights into the orange county youth sports culture would be much appreciated.
I would say Youth sports in OC is a mixed bag. There is certainly a ton of the negatives you mentioned - Out of control competitive parents, 8 year olds specailizing in one sport, etc. But I would say the diversity of sports options out here is much greater. In addition to the "typical" sports you mentioned, OC is huge in all water sports, alot of "extreme" sports and other activities. (I never heard of a varsity surfing team when I lived in NJ ) The 4 season outdoor training opportunities fosters a very sports friendly culture.
The kids in my HB neighborhood take their baseball very seriously and play as much baseball in the street as I did as a kid years ago. I have always told friends how talented these kids are even at a young age and started to think that maybe all kids are this good nowadays or that I was just being a little biased (a homer). Well, one world championship later and I now realize I was watching something truly special. Congratulations to the Little League World Champions, great job guys!
To the topic: Someone at ESPN asked what other sports these kids play and the answer was... ahh, pretty much just baseball.
To the topic: Someone at ESPN asked what other sports these kids play and the answer was... ahh, pretty much just baseball.
The general consensus among most OC parents I've discussed this with is that baseball is by far the toughest team for boys to make at the high school level.
I imagine that's partially a function of the sheer number of kids that play baseball. Unfortunately I think there's more to it than that though. All too often if a kid hasn't played on the right feeder/club teams, chances of making the high school team are slim to none.
I think most area schools have both A & B teams at the freshman level in basketball, so a bit more opportunity there. I've definitely heard of selective weeding out going on though. ie: every kid from the coach's club team = a starter, while more talented players sit the bench.
Football is generally no cut, so no worries about making that team.
Some kids are still multi sport athletes at the high school level, but I don't think it's as common as it used to be. And I have heard of area high school coaches pressuring kids to focus on one sport exclusively. If the kid is talented, the sport they coach of course. If the kid is at the bottom of the team roster, another coaches' sport is fine.
I think it's safe to assume that at schools with competitive athletic programs, competition for spots on most teams will often be fierce, and yes, unfortunately sometimes political.
BTW, from what I hear volleyball is probably the toughest team for girls to make at the high school level. It's quite popular in OC.
There are also two rowing clubs (Long Beach, and Newport) that consistently have teams (boats) winning national and international events. Both clubs have members competing with the Junior National Team, the Nationbal Under-23 team and the National (Olympic) Team.
There are tons of non traditional sports being played at a very high level in OC.
We just moved here last year from New York and were flabbergasted by the emphasis placed on sports at a young level. To join the town's little league team at 10 years old, you needed to be able to make practices/games 6-7 times per week (five practices at least, plus at least one batting cage time, plus one or two games)! And the people that we spoke with about it told us that it is not uncommon for parents to hire private batting/pitching coaches for their 3rd graders just so they can keep up.
We did AYSO soccer as well, which is supposed to be supportive, skill development, etc., but had a horrible time with it (which is why we asked what baseball was like). The coach only played the boys that he knew/that had been on the team before, constantly yelled at the kids, etc. It was almost (almost) comical that he even yelled at them when they scored - seriously, he would berate them for kicking it in the wrong part of the net, even though they scored!
So, suffice it to say that we are not happy with the sports here - if you are looking for highly competitive, specializing at young ages (7-8-9), and parents who will spend any amount of time and money to get their kids onto a high school team, this is your place! It's just not ours.
I have to say it was disappointing that our son who did baseball, soccer, track, and football in New York went to just track because it was really the only thing where kids hadn't been doing it year-round for five years already (at age 10), so he felt he could survive there.
I guess that is important to mention as well - because the weather is so freakin' fantastic here year round, the kids can do the same sport each season. If you want to make a good team/club team in the fall for something, you'd better be on a team in the winter, spring, and attending camps all summer!
You also mentioned academics - the academics out here in Orange County DO NOT stack up to those in NY/NJ . . . just to warn you. Our elementary school (K-6) is the only one in our town that still has a functional/operating library as librarians were cut out of the school budgets a few years ago. The PTA in our school does a fundraiser each year to keep a tech person and a librarian. The kids do not have art classes or music classes at the elementary level. They do have instruments starting in 4/5 grade, but no music classes other than that. It is sad and disappointing and even though the kids have great test scores, it is definitely a "no frills" environment. Our son had 35 children in his 5th grade class and our other son had 30 in his 2nd grade class. That was compared to our public school in NY that had 16 kids in our first grade class and 22 in a fourth grade class.
I could go on, but I wish I had known about the academics and sports before we moved here. Good luck with your decision!
Specifically, I will be moving with my family to include a few elementary school age kids from northern new jersey. I will have an option to relocate to either southern california or northern virginia. My kids are very involved in sports - football, wrestling, baseball, etc. They perform very well in the area, but I want them to focus more on academics. In northern new jersey, its hard to stay competitive without training almost year round and joining specialized clubs. The kids, to include the others that they train with, are almost like younger versions of pro athletes in terms of hours, training regimen, etc.
Is orange county similar in terms of having overly competitive parents / kids with respect to sports? I played a sport at a DI college, but didn't really get serious about it until high school. In all honesty, many of the kids around here are training harder and more serious at ages of 10 and under than what I did as a teenager. In northern new jersey it seems that kids that want to do well in an area, such as sports, academics, arts, etc., need to dedicate all their efforts into it. The school I went to is also top 10 for academics, which is what I really focused on and want my kids to focus on as well. That said, I want them to be well-rounded and play sports, but not in an environment where everyone wants to be the next peyton manning, cael sanderson, or alex rodriguez.
Any insights into the orange county youth sports culture would be much appreciated.
Basically every parents' mindset in OC.
You'll fit right in.
What happened to playing sports for fun? Seems like everyone is trying to get their kids into pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-professional "leagues".
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) The 4 season outdoor training opportunities fosters a very sports friendly culture.
