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Old 10-12-2011, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
5,186 posts, read 5,514,216 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrcousert View Post
I think we should focus on improving our bus system. Create a network of rapid buses with limited stops, dedicated lanes, signal priority and off bus fare collection. There wouldn't be any need to purchase special buses or build stations - only add day pass machines to the express stops. The biggest expense would be rigging up the traffic signals, but I think that was done years ago for fire trucks. I would also add a ramp to the bus stops to limit the time needed for loading and unloading wheel chairs.

We could upgrade the bus lanes to rail when the county has the money to do so.
Piitsburgh would provide an excellent case study. They run articulated Buses on dedicated busways. It works like a dream.

I still think a bart like system is what OC needs.
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Old 10-12-2011, 02:00 PM
 
2,053 posts, read 2,149,250 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DinsdalePirahna View Post
I still think a bart like system is what OC needs.
I agree. But how would it be funded? A project like this would cost billions. I don't think Orange County would vote for yet another sales tax increase.
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Old 10-12-2011, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
5,186 posts, read 5,514,216 times
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Recover more of OUR federal taxes that we pay to recipient (mostly red) states that hate California anyway. Ungrateful bastiches.

add a penny to the Gasoline Tax. 5 cent surcharge on tolls.

Taxes buy civilization. Its wasteful spending, and corruption that are killing us.
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Old 10-12-2011, 05:20 PM
 
Location: laguna beach
200 posts, read 241,822 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DinsdalePirahna View Post
Piitsburgh would provide an excellent case study. They run articulated Buses on dedicated busways. It works like a dream.

I still think a bart like system is what OC needs.
www.octa.net/uploadedfiles/brt_061107.pdf

Bravo! was already on the books, but was killed and the money was used for traffic light syncing.

Problem with OCTA is the way taxes are collected. Measure M is a countywide tax, yet a lot of the Measure M projects have went towards facilitating the commute of individuals who live outside the county (i.e. 91 Fwy at the OC County line, 5/405/22 at the LA County Line etc) The major infrastructure improvements do not occur in areas where most Orange County residents live and work but rather on the periphery.
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Old 10-12-2011, 05:25 PM
 
2,053 posts, read 2,149,250 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socalpal View Post
www.octa.net/uploadedfiles/brt_061107.pdf

Bravo! was already on the books, but was killed and the money was used for traffic light syncing.
Bravo! did too little for too much money They could use the existing buses and bus stops for express service. Remember the Super Bus? The limited stops alone saved over 30 minutes on Beach Blvd. Signal syncing would probably save even more time.

I read once that OCTA was about to lose federal funds if they didn't build Center Line or Bravo! What happened there?

Did they finish the syncing?
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Old 10-12-2011, 08:52 PM
 
Location: laguna beach
200 posts, read 241,822 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrcousert View Post
Bravo! did too little for too much money They could use the existing buses and bus stops for express service. Remember the Super Bus? The limited stops alone saved over 30 minutes on Beach Blvd. Signal syncing would probably save even more time.

I read once that OCTA was about to lose federal funds if they didn't build Center Line or Bravo! What happened there?

Did they finish the syncing?
The federal study for Centerline recommended against building it and cited several cities where Light Rail was implemented but did not live up to ridership numbers (Atlanta was the major one in that study if I recall correctly). This study coupled with the NIMBY's killed Centerline.


I do not think any amount of signal light syncing will make as much difference as a real mass transportation solution. These projects are good complements but are not really the solution. Unless OCTA builds grade seperated bus ways (kinda like what Metro did in the SF Valley) there is no way a bus would be the preferred method of transportation over the car. You are stuck in the exact same traffic as a regular vehicle.


On a side note, What I find kind of humorous though is if you drive down Santa Ana St in Downtown Anaheim there are actual tracks built into the road, but these are not LRT tracks but rather heavy freight tracks:

santa ana st, anaheim ca - Google Maps
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Old 10-13-2011, 11:37 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DinsdalePirahna View Post
add a penny to the Gasoline Tax. 5 cent surcharge on tolls.
Would that be enough? Duplicating the BART system would probably cost at LEAST $5 billion - probably much more.

Do you think the public would support a tax increase like this if 100% of the money were spent on a system like BART?
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Old 10-13-2011, 11:41 AM
 
2,053 posts, read 2,149,250 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socalpal View Post
On a side note, What I find kind of humorous though is if you drive down Santa Ana St in Downtown Anaheim there are actual tracks built into the road, but these are not LRT tracks but rather heavy freight tracks:

santa ana st, anaheim ca - Google Maps
Why not string some catenary wire and run some historic street cars? The cost would be minimal. They could probably borrow some old Red or Yellow Cars from the museum in Riverside County. This would be a great test line.
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Old 10-13-2011, 12:08 PM
 
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
5,186 posts, read 5,514,216 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrcousert View Post
Why not string some catenary wire and run some historic street cars? The cost would be minimal. They could probably borrow some old Red or Yellow Cars from the museum in Riverside County. This would be a great test line.
San Francisco uses historic/retired trolleys from across the world. Kind of a neat idea.

OC needs to think much bigger.

30 year bond floated on a 1 to 5 cent a gallon surcharge should be able to fund a nice lightrail system. (just a guestimate, have not done any actual math)

a 2x4 whacked against the nimby mindset should take care of that problem. For the life of me I can not understand why people vote against ideas/projects that are really in their best interests.
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Old 10-13-2011, 12:37 PM
 
2,053 posts, read 2,149,250 times
Reputation: 879
Quote:
Originally Posted by DinsdalePirahna View Post
San Francisco uses historic/retired trolleys from across the world. Kind of a neat idea.

OC needs to think much bigger.
This would just be a test line. The cost to install ten miles of catenary wire is probably less than $1 million. Build it and see if the public likes it. If so, create a ballot initiative to fund a larger system.

Another option would be to rent or lease a train similar to that used on the Sprinter.

http://www.lightrailnow.org/news/n_sd_2008-05a.htm

We could use that on the extensive network of unused rail track that crosses the county. The cost would be low. Build a few concrete pads for benches and some ticket machines and maybe half a dozen train sets to get started.
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