Do American born Chinese in Irvine have especially poor Chinese? (public schools, university)
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There's not that many in Irvine from what I've seen. There are some in Garden Grove and Westminster (mostly ethnic Chinese from Vietnam.) Most of the poorer Chinese will live in the San Gabriel Valley or Rowland Heights.
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Originally Posted by Haowen Wong
As a first generation immigrant from Hong Kong, I was dismayed at how mediocre the Chinese of 2nd Generation Chinese in Irvine was.
My Chinese friends were first generation 30 years ago. They were all eager to do this thing called assimilate. Not a Chinese name among their children and they could care less that their children speak Chinese with an American accent. Because their children are, surprise, American.
They live in Irvine, BTW. And only one Chinese friend married a Chinese. Again, assimilation.
As a first generation immigrant from Hong Kong, I was dismayed at how mediocre the Chinese of 2nd Generation Chinese in Irvine was.
My 2nd generation peers mostly couldn't read and spoke only conversationally with an American accent. Some could only understand, but not speak, Chinese. Others didn't understand Chinese at all. Only 15-20% could write Chinese.
Is this the same case with 2nd generation Chinese in your city (besides Irvine) anywhere else in Orange County? I can't imagine Chinese with worse Chinese than those in Irvine!
Indeed, the younger generation's Chinese is so poor that when I visit a Chinese restaurant or other first-generation immigrants, they speak to me in English by default (because I am the same age as 2nd generation immigrants). Imagine their surprise when I converse with them in perfect Cantonese and read/write Chinese!
Ironically, Irvine has the highest percentage of Chinese in Orange County.
I hate to say it, but this seems more common than not for most/all ethnicities, not just Chinese. I know it's the case for my culture (my family and those around me). I was raised by family off the boat with accents so thick that when they spoke English (if they knew it at all), you often had no idea they were speaking English because their native tongue was that intense. Fast forward to my generation, I speak some of my native language, but I'm certainly not fluent, not even to the degree I was as a child. I often consider brushing up my skills, though. Since it isn't a common language, it will be to preserve my heritage, and not for realistic, useful reasons.
Last edited by SunnyTXsmile; 07-02-2012 at 11:47 AM..
Of all the east Asian cultures around here, the ones that seem to speak their native languages the most in my experience are Vietnamese and Koreans. Filipinos and Chinese tend to trend the other way(again, in my experience).
Well, I'll have to commend the Koreans for their superb retention of their native language through their American-born!
Even the American Born Koreans who have rather "poor" Korean can write at a fourth grade level and speak without an accent!
My Chinese friends were first generation 30 years ago. They were all eager to do this thing called assimilate. Not a Chinese name among their children and they could care less that their children speak Chinese with an American accent. Because their children are, surprise, American.
They live in Irvine, BTW. And only one Chinese friend married a Chinese. Again, assimilation.
I do know, however, a American born Chinese who speaks Cantonese without an accent, conversational Mandarin, and can write Simplified Chinese. He goes by his Chinese name, despite having an English name.
Actually, even for English names, Chinese people (myself included) use rather obsolete English names, like Esther, Charlotte, for girls and Cyrus, Cornelius (that's me) for boys.
I don't use my English name, even when non-Chinese (or American born Chinese) have trouble pronouncing it; in that case, I suggest them calling me "HW" for "Haowen." "Cornelius" is just my middle name so people can infer that I am male (although "Haowen" is just as masculine in Chinese as "Augustus" is in the West.)
As a first generation immigrant from Hong Kong, I was dismayed at how mediocre the Chinese of 2nd Generation Chinese in Irvine was.
My 2nd generation peers mostly couldn't read and spoke only conversationally with an American accent. Some could only understand, but not speak, Chinese. Others didn't understand Chinese at all. Only 15-20% could write Chinese.
Is this the same case with 2nd generation Chinese in your city (besides Irvine) anywhere else in Orange County? I can't imagine Chinese with worse Chinese than those in Irvine!
Indeed, the younger generation's Chinese is so poor that when I visit a Chinese restaurant or other first-generation immigrants, they speak to me in English by default (because I am the same age as 2nd generation immigrants). Imagine their surprise when I converse with them in perfect Cantonese and read/write Chinese!
Ironically, Irvine has the highest percentage of Chinese in Orange County.
Perhaps you'd care to tell us what the problem is. No, really.
As someone who lives among many who speak poor or no English and, due to their comfort within their ethnic enclaves, never will, I'd be happy to do a population exchange.
... as EscapeCalifornia noted, these people, while of Chinese ancestry, are American. This shouldn't surprise you.
... because they're American.
Why would it surprise you to find out that someone born and raised in the US would speak what is a foreign language, to them, with an accent?
Even if they grew up speaking some Chinese to their parents or grandparents, the vast bulk of their language use is going to be in English, and there may not have been a need nor familial pressure to learn how to read or write Chinese.
The speak English by default because that's their native tongue.
And I'm sure you're quite proud of this. Good job: you emigrated to the US and still speak the dominant language of the nation you moved from!
Yeah, the highest number of American kids with Chinese parents. They grow up listening to American music, watch American TV, go to American schools, get American jobs, have kids with other Americans and generally live life like any other American.
If Chinese is not their native language, then why are they often placed in ESL in Kindergarten?
I may be from Hong Kong, but I have two native languages: Cantonese and English. (By the time I was two I could speak both.) So, even White Americans may not be able to tell I am not an ABC.
Currently, of course, being in an environment where English is necessary, I do use English more than Chinese.
I am a little flabbergasted, though, that the influence of their parents would not perfect their accent in Chinese. And I am impressed by second generation Koreans, of which the vast majority can write Korean. But Korean is phonetic, so knowing how to speak and the alphabet would guarantee literacy; not so in logographic Chinese. This may de-motivate ABCs.
I was fortunate enough to be from Hong Kong, so naturally our family was fluent in English. I would suspect, however, that 2nd generation Taiwanese/Mainlanders may have language barriers with their parents.
Perhaps you'd care to tell us what the problem is. No, really.
As someone who lives among many who speak poor or no English and, due to their comfort within their ethnic enclaves, never will, I'd be happy to do a population exchange.
The problem is a loss of culture and self-identity.
I see Singaporean Chinese as a model: They have created an Irvine-esque utopia and 80% of the nation can speak English; all the road signs, etc. are in English, and English is the dominant language in schools. But they have mandatory Chinese language/cultural appreciation classes at school, something that cannot be said of Irvine.
Not surprising with Koreans as their aim is usually to go back to the Old Country after making money and getting the kids educated (often because they can't make the cut for elite Korean schools). The Chinese seem more likely to want to stay and become citizens, which in my mind is preferable.
According to my Korean classmate, that description would suit the Japanese better. Besides, the elite US universities are better than the best Asian colleges.
I would agree that Chinese (except for mainlanders) are quicker to assimilate, but maybe that's partially because the 2nd generation cannot speak Chinese well and thus it is necessary to learn English for the 1st generation?
Personally, I am both a citizen of Hong Kong and US (I got the former by birth and the latter by jus sanguinius). I count myself fortunate as such, but I do prefer Hong Kong to Irvine, and plan to re-immigrate to there.
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