Ongoing Measles Outbreak in California: 51 so far linked to Disneyland (San Diego: luxury, income)
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The parents don't bare any responsibility? Taking young infants to a place like Disneyland, especially during flu season, is not a good idea. The infants this young get nothing out of being there and are just exposed to all sorts of pathogens at a time when they are most susceptible to adverse outcomes from common diseases.
I was scheduled to be at Disneyland today with my family. I have a 4 month old and a nearly 3 year old. Had the measles outbreak not occurred, I would be at Disneyland rather than typing this message right now. Having said that, I'm much less worried about my infant son contracting the flu/cold, especially when his brother is in preschool and is bringing home god knows what kinds of fun viruses. It's also easier to protect for these sorts of things when you know what to expect. Measles on the other hand is a something I am completely unfamiliar with and have only heard terrible things about.
So how will this achieve Herd Immunity? If you were to achieve 100% childhood vaccination, you still have unvaccinated adults traveling all over. Do these adults flock to the same community and stay there? The vaccinated CHILDREN in their neighborhood will protect them? Adults don't go to work, travel, go to sports arenas, etc.? Didn't we see this with the Disney employees, presumably adults? Remember the NYC measles outbreak? BIG CITY where millions of people come in contact with other people. They flock to the same neighborhood with like minded people?
If an adult says no they don't want this or that vax, how are you going to force them? Look at that CDC report and see the percentage of adult not getting their recommended vaccinations and/or boosters. They have all been brainwashed by Jenny McCarthy? If you had asked me a year or two ago who she was, I would have said Paul's daughter? She wasn't even born when I stopped vaccinating.
Your Herd Immunity is unworkable.
Herd immunity is attained when at least 92% of the population is vaccinated. Now, that may not stop an unvaccinated individual from getting the disease, but it will stop an epidemic from happening. So right now, if there aren't epidemics happening, it's because those people who aren't immunized are riding on the backs of those who are. But when the herd immunity drops below 92%, it's at that point that one person with measles, whooping cough, mumps, chicken pox, or any other communicable disease can spread the disease fast enough so it spreads among many people and turns it into an epidemic. Which is why we're seeing so many mini-epidemics lately.
And by the way, herd immunity has been proven and it does work. When epidemiologists were vaccinating the last people to get smallpox, they found out that they didn't have to vaccinate everyone in the area. They practiced ring vaccination, where they vaccinated a certain percentage of people and a certain percentage just beyond the epidemic area. That was what brought about the final days of smallpox.
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Originally Posted by user_id
What controversy? People stopped getting the smallpox vaccine years ago, whether older people that got it need a booster isn't important because small pox was eradicated. In any case, whether you get a vaccine or the actual disease your immunity will wane over time but that doesn't mean your immunity vanishes and you need a booster. With attenuated vaccines, like the measles vaccine, you generally don't need boosters because they are exposing you to a live virus. Though with other types of vaccines you do often need boosters. For the few that do end up getting the disease despite getting the vaccine, its usually a mild case compared to the person that didn't receive the vaccine.
The CDC doesn't recommend a measles booster for adults that have already been vaccinated and its clear that the current outbreak is due to people that never got the vaccine.
Because smallpox as a disease is still a threat as a bio-terrorist weapon. The disease has indeed been eradicated worldwide, but what you forget is it's still in containment at the CDC and in Russia as well. None of those samples have been destroyed yet. There is proof that the Russians actually were able to aerosolize smallpox at one time. If someone gets a hold of this sample, it would be very easy to spread a small amount over a great distance. That's why there are boxes in New York City streets to alert us in case they detect smallpox or anthrax in the air. And the CDC isn't recommending smallpox boosters simply because there isn't currently enough vaccine to vaccinate everyone.
Try reading 'The Demon in the Freezer' by Richard Preston. As a matter of fact, if you want to get the pants scared off you, head to your local library and pick up a few books on viruses and bacteria.
- Open the flood gates to anyone and everyone.
- Insist that vaccines are only for "Big Pharma" and don't benefit us all as a whole.
- Disarm the populace so that only druglords, gangsters, cops and the military have them (very Third World!)
- Protect criminals at the expense of true victims
- Dumb down our schools and learning institutions in the name of "equality" and "fairness"
- As in the ebola outbreak, make allegations that proposing a ban on travel from effected nations is "racist".
- Attack people for trying to be successful and innovative.
- Ignore science when it's not politically correct (I.Q., the Bell Curve, evolution)
- Teach kids that they should be ashamed of Western Civilization, instead of proud of it...
Are you all aware that many of these parents were never vaccinated as children themselves? Some have said that their own parents didn't vaccinate them because they saw no reason to. These now grandparents grew up before these vaccinations and had these childhood diseases themselves.
Putting aside simply measles, do you think these people have had any boosters, IF they had the vax as kids. Whooping cough? Have these adults had the recommended boosters every 10 years? Flu shots?????? Vaccination ends with CHILDHOOD? They don't last a lifetime.
It's too easy a solution to force vaccinations on children. Not so easy to force vaccinations on these parents themselves, including adults who don't have young children themselves. They would go completely under the radar.
Have you done any research on vaccination statistics from the CDC? It would probably shock you. I am not only talking about children, who although high vax rates, but it still not enough for the "Herd Immunity". Look at the adult vaccination rate which in some cases is less than 50%. Herd Immunity?
Have all of YOU had your Dtap vax in the last 10 years? Sorry, if this is getting OT from measles, but vaccination rates among adults is very relevant. Were the Disney employees unvaccinated children? Were they all immigrants?
Here's my subjective answer..
So called 'Liberalism', which is really cultural-Marxism, is a philosophy of self-destruction injected into the West. Cultural Marxists routinely work to sabotage & dilute the foundations of American/Western civilization.
Those foundations being our borders (Liberals sabotage and disproportionately undermine the defense of our Mexican border, and then pass legislation to aid and abet illegal immigrants once they're here.)
Our English language (Liberals are encouraging & supporting linguistic balkanization/ Spanish & English rift primarily.) Which is designed to undermine assimilation into Anglo-American tradition.
And a continuous assault, and ridicule, of middle-class cultural tradition. Liberal policy and philosophy is leading to childless yuppies & hipsters, & a huge undertow of impoverished Third World class. The idea of 2 parent, 2 car garage family is demonized and peddled by Liberals as 'fly-over country' simple-mindedness.
If u don't believe we're being reduced to Third World status, visit spots in LA., where unchecked illegal immigration has transformed the areas.. Schools where kids can barely speak English. Schools in the Valley that are routinely closed by Latino gang fights.. and look at the disappearing, once stabilizing middle class. But I will concede Conservatives have been ineffective in fighting it.. peace.
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Originally Posted by kttam186290
- Open the flood gates to anyone and everyone.
- Insist that vaccines are only for "Big Pharma" and don't benefit us all as a whole.
- Disarm the populace so that only druglords, gangsters, cops and the military have them (very Third World!)
- Protect criminals at the expense of true victims
- Dumb down our schools and learning institutions in the name of "equality" and "fairness"
- As in the ebola outbreak, make allegations that proposing a ban on travel from effected nations is "racist".
- Attack people for trying to be successful and innovative.
- Ignore science when it's not politically correct (I.Q., the Bell Curve, evolution)
- Teach kids that they should be ashamed of Western Civilization, instead of proud of it...
I could go on...
If it weren't so scary, It would be pathetic!
Oh my. Well, thanks fellas. Nice to know that the world we live in has reached such a pinnacle of perfection! You know, institutions like Big Pharma and a fractional reserve banking system that exists to create debt to enrich a handful while marketing an entirely unsustainable "middle class lifestyle" that chokes and enslaves its mindless followers in the giant Ponzi scheme known as western "civilization"!
Definitely worth defending! Thanks for your service!
Btw: as one who served in military action in third-world countries, um, pockets of poverty in the world's richest, most advanced nation, doesn't constitute falling into third world condition and culture.
Herd immunity is attained when at least 92% of the population is vaccinated. Now, that may not stop an unvaccinated individual from getting the disease, but it will stop an epidemic from happening. So right now, if there aren't epidemics happening, it's because those people who aren't immunized are riding on the backs of those who are. But when the herd immunity drops below 92%, it's at that point that one person with measles, whooping cough, mumps, chicken pox, or any other communicable disease can spread the disease fast enough so it spreads among many people and turns it into an epidemic. Which is why we're seeing so many mini-epidemics lately.
And by the way, herd immunity has been proven and it does work. When epidemiologists were vaccinating the last people to get smallpox, they found out that they didn't have to vaccinate everyone in the area. They practiced ring vaccination, where they vaccinated a certain percentage of people and a certain percentage just beyond the epidemic area. That was what brought about the final days of smallpox.
Because smallpox as a disease is still a threat as a bio-terrorist weapon. The disease has indeed been eradicated worldwide, but what you forget is it's still in containment at the CDC and in Russia as well. None of those samples have been destroyed yet. There is proof that the Russians actually were able to aerosolize smallpox at one time. If someone gets a hold of this sample, it would be very easy to spread a small amount over a great distance. That's why there are boxes in New York City streets to alert us in case they detect smallpox or anthrax in the air. And the CDC isn't recommending smallpox boosters simply because there isn't currently enough vaccine to vaccinate everyone.
Try reading 'The Demon in the Freezer' by Richard Preston. As a matter of fact, if you want to get the pants scared off you, head to your local library and pick up a few books on viruses and bacteria.
I had measles as a 6 month old baby. Never had an MMR. I guess all the unvaccinated Senior population, who had these childhood diseases, are being protected by the vaccinated herd?
I suppose now these unvaccinated people who caught measles from the Disney outbreak, will be getting their boosters and joining the vaccinated herd?
Sorry suzyq, but that IS exactly what you said. I was pretty sure you didn't mean it that way. But, yeah, that's the way you said it. Like with your false syllogisms, when making a case you have to use language in ways that can't be misinterpreted.
Now, back to your obsession with Jenny McCarthy and celebrities. As I have pointed out several times: charlatans, false prophets, and celebrity spokespersons have always been a part of life's campaigns. The root issues to be confronted and dealt with are found in various aspects of human nature that make people susceptible to such salesmanship. And if you want a serious contemporary villain, look at the impersonal internet.
Read your links? Yeah, I read most of them - until they damn near put me to sleep with irrelevant / insignificant blather.
You can impute what you wish to my statements. I repeat: I stated that the demographic that does not vaccinate is typically a well educated one. I provided references. Sorry that you found them boring.
Antivaccine platform: Many health experts, science writers and advocates for evidence-based medicine are voicing their worries over the hiring of actress and prominent antivaccine activist Jenny McCarthy as a cohost of the popular daytime television program “The View.” McCarthy claims her son’s autism diagnosis resulted from childhood vaccinations. “Jenny McCarthy, who will join “The View” in September, will be the show’s first co-host whose dangerous views on childhood vaccination may — if only indirectly — have contributed to the sickness and death of people throughout the Western world,” science writer Michael Specter wrote in The New Yorker. Seth Mnookin, author of The Panic Virus: The True Story Behind the Vaccine-Autism Controversy, which explored the story of how many people came to believe vaccines were associated with autism, chastised the ABC television network for giving its “imprimatur to someone who has worked, methodically and relentlessly, to undermine public health.” Other publications expressing alarm include Forbes (“Jenny McCarthy Is A Dangerous Medical Celebrity”), Time (“Viruses Don’t Care About Your View: Why ABC Shouldn’t Have Hired Jenny McCarthy”) and Salon (“Dear ABC: Putting Jenny McCarthy on “The View” will kill children”). — Roger Collier, CMAJ
Feel free to read the full articles referenced. They are not in scientific publications, so they should be easier to understand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48
Are you all aware that many of these parents were never vaccinated as children themselves? Some have said that their own parents didn't vaccinate them because they saw no reason to. These now grandparents grew up before these vaccinations and had these childhood diseases themselves.
Putting aside simply measles, do you think these people have had any boosters, IF they had the vax as kids. Whooping cough? Have these adults had the recommended boosters every 10 years? Flu shots?????? Vaccination ends with CHILDHOOD? They don't last a lifetime.
It's too easy a solution to force vaccinations on children. Not so easy to force vaccinations on these parents themselves, including adults who don't have young children themselves. They would go completely under the radar.
Have you done any research on vaccination statistics from the CDC? It would probably shock you. I am not only talking about children, who although high vax rates, but it still not enough for the "Herd Immunity". Look at the adult vaccination rate which in some cases is less than 50%. Herd Immunity?
Have all of YOU had your Dtap vax in the last 10 years? Sorry, if this is getting OT from measles, but vaccination rates among adults is very relevant. Were the Disney employees unvaccinated children? Were they all immigrants?
People who have had the illnesses are not vaccinated for them. That includes just about everyone born before 1957. So nattering on about vaccinating adults who have already had measles, mumps and chickenpox is silly. You know good and well that people are not offered vaccines for childhood illnesses that they have already had.
Boosters are recommended for tetanus (There is no "herd immunity" for it. If you are not vaccinated, you can get it.) and for whooping cough. Tetanus should be boosted every ten years. For adults, that is a combination tetanus and diphtheria vaccine: Td. The current recommendation is that one dose of the Tdap (tetanus, dipththeria, pertussis) vaccine be substituted for one dose of the Td vaccine between the ages of 11 and 64.
Get that? One dose of Tdap, not every ten years. Please stop repeating that a Tdap booster is needed every ten years. It is only once, unless you are pregnant, then one during each pregnancy in order to boost mom's antibody levels so she will pass more protection to her baby.
Once more: for non-pregnant people one Tdap, not one every ten years. Got it?
Immigration is irrelevant. Measles can be brought in by legal travelers, unvaccinated tourists or citizens who travel abroad and bring it back. The initial ("index") case of the Disney outbreak has not been identified.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48
I had measles as a 6 month old baby. Never had an MMR. I guess all the unvaccinated Senior population, who had these childhood diseases, are being protected by the vaccinated herd?
I suppose now these unvaccinated people who caught measles from the Disney outbreak, will be getting their boosters and joining the vaccinated herd?
No, the senior citizens are protected by having had the disease.
No, the people who have had measles during the current outbreak will not be vaccinated. It's too late for that now.
Having said that, I'm much less worried about my infant son contracting the flu/cold, especially when his brother is in preschool and is bringing home god knows what kinds of fun viruses.
Why? Far more infants die of the flu then they do of measles. Being more familiar with the flu won't prevent an infant from having complications from the disease.
Putting aside simply measles, do you think these people have had any boosters, IF they had the vax as kids. Whooping cough? Have these adults had the recommended boosters every 10 years? Flu shots?????? Vaccination ends with CHILDHOOD? They don't last a lifetime.
How long the immunity lasts depends on the type of vaccine, in general attenuated vaccines (like the measles vaccine) provide the vast majority of people lifelong immunity. On the other hand vaccines that are based on dead cells often require boosters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48
Have all of YOU had your Dtap vax in the last 10 years?
No, because I received the whole-cell vaccine (which was phrased out in the early 1990's) and boosters aren't really required unless you're in a high risk group (e.g., medical professional). The boosters for those that received the newer vaccine were recommended when it became clear it wasn't working as well as the older, but less safe, vaccine.
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