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I'd like to see you buy a 655K house with 76K income.
Simple. You can't.
But I don't understand your anger (maybe just frustration). Why should anyone making $76K "deserve" to buy a house of $655K?
Did you grow up as a "I deserve" generation?
This simple fact should motivate you to:
1). Make more money
2). Save more money
3). Buy a condo, a townhouse, a small house in a less expensive area.
The fact is people who own the $655K homes in SoCal did not buy them at that price. They saved, both worked while raising children, sacrificed other parts of their lives to make mortgage payments, in order to afford the house they could. Over the years, it appreciated, they traded up, and so on....
My father worked 3 jobs supporting his wife who stayed at home raising his 3 children, and he also supported his parents financially, and he was able to buy a house.
What sacrifices have you made in saving money toward a house?
I never said the government should support policies to help the "poor" into a "wealthy" neighborhood.
Uh, yes you did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by man4857
I agree, definitely we would have a way healthier housing market but I think more importantly, it'll be great at community building and allow families to live close to each other even if they are both from quite different income backgrounds. I never understood why housing itself isn't as tightly regulated like utilities and other critical elements necessary for our standard of living. Feelin' the Bern here.
That is not you supporting government intervention into the housing market to "treat housing itself as tightly regulated like utilities" to make homes more affordable for people like you who are low-mid wage earners? You even throw a little shout out to everyone's favorite socialist right in your own quote.
At least be honest for what you're advocating. You're advocating for state sponsored socialist wealth redistribution (aka THEFT) to allow lower wage earners like yourself to be able to live in a desirable neighborhood under the guise of "allowing families to live closer together" (the feelings based argument of most leftist trains of thought). You don't want to do what it takes to be able to make $300,000/annually, you simply want to keep making your $75,000 a year and be able to live in the same area where the high wage earners currently live. That's not you fighting for "fairness", that's just selfish envy for your own personal gain. Like I said, be honest with yourself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by man4857
Want a property for 300K-400K? Try Pomona, Riverside, Compton. What does this say? You have a middle class income you get to live in a terrible area. There's your American Dream you're preaching. There's a fundamental unfairness aspect to this you don't appear to understand and yet you're asking me to pay attention in civics. Ha the arrogance is showing.
Uh, Pomona and Riverside ARE middle class areas in SoCal (Compton is probably lower-middle class). No I don't think they are terrible, and no I don't think they're perfect, but what middle class area is perfect? Sure it would be nice to live in a house within Coastal OC with white water views of the beach, perfect temps all year round, and only a 10 minute commute to work, but that's simply not a possibility for everyone in the world.
You may call it "arrogance", but it's reality kiddo. You're obviously young, you embrace progressive leftist politics, and think that equality of outcome is a great way to achieve your liberal utopia. Guess what kid? They've tried it before and socialist wealth redistribution simply does not work. You want to be able to buy a home in OC someday? Capitalism is the answer. There is literally no nation on the face of the earth with the type of income mobility that you see in the United States. You may think it's cool, and noble to support someone like Bernie Sanders, but Bernie himself owns 3 freaking homes and is a multi-millionaire. How do you explain that for someone whose primary job for the past few decades has been "public servant"? Bernie talks out of one side of his mouth to the young impressionable youth, but he actually believes and practices something else from the other side of his mouth.
This is why progressive leftist politics is so damaging to the fabric of American society. You have young kids who believe that they should be able to live in Coastal OC simply because they were "born there" and work "really hard" even if they only make $75,000 a year. This has no basis in actual market reality, it's simply a feelings based sentiment that "I should have what I want because I tried really hard". This is a dangerous sentiment because people who feel like this begin to feel victimized, and feeling victimized for long periods of time tends to lead to extremism, which then leads to "the ends justifies the means".
To be honest, I feel sorry for you. I feel sorry that your parents didn't teach you about how the world actually works. I feel sorry that you don't understand just how beneficial capitalism has been to society as a whole. It's not too late though, you could do some reading or watch some videos and educate yourself. The only cost will be your time.
Simple. You can't.
But I don't understand your anger (maybe just frustration). Why should anyone making $76K "deserve" to buy a house of $655K?
Did you grow up as a "I deserve" generation?
This simple fact should motivate you to:
1). Make more money
2). Save more money
3). Buy a condo, a townhouse, a small house in a less expensive area.
What sacrifices have you made in saving money toward a house?
I never said anyone was "entitled" to be able to buy such a house. The fact is one needs to work harder to get to that begs the question, how much harder?
This isn't even about the quantity of work now as in hold 3 "low" (in a relative sense, don't over blow this out of proportions) paying jobs to save up cash, this is straight up how much you get paid at a full time job and even doing part time job on the side.
You ask what sacrifices have I made to save money?
I went to school, got my BS and MS degrees in a "legit" field, engineering. Worked part time during school to help pay for it.
I drove a beater that was 13/14 or so years old that was about to fall apart.
I stayed with my parents to save money to pay off my student loans after my BS program.
I went without health insurance to save even more money.
I did part time work on the weekend (Saturdays usually) to save extra cash.
I stayed home and didn't go on vacations or spend too much money on discretionary stuff.
How long will I have to keep doing this to get to that "median" house price (i.e. come up with the 20% downpayment, closing cost + move in cost)? At least at the very minimum, 7-10 years that's if I mooch off my parents and don't pay rent.
What does this get me? A crapshack 1400 sq ft house in OC and you dare even suggest I feel entitled?
I never said anyone was "entitled" to be able to buy such a house. The fact is one needs to work harder to get to that begs the question, how much harder?
This isn't even about the quantity of work now as in hold 3 "low" (in a relative sense, don't over blow this out of proportions) paying jobs to save up cash, this straight up how much you get paid at a full time job and even doing part time job on the side.
You ask what sacrifices have I made to save money?
I went to school, got my BS and MS degrees in a "legit" field, engineering. Worked part time during school to help pay for it.
I drove a beater that was 13/14 or so years old that was about to fall apart.
I stayed with my parents to save money to pay off my student loans after my BS program.
I went without health insurance to save even more money.
I did part time work on the weekend (Saturdays usually) to save extra cash.
I stayed home and didn't go on vacations or spend too much money on discretionary stuff.
How long will I have to keep doing this to get to that "median" house price (i.e. come up with the 20% downpayment, closing cost + move in cost)? At least at the very minimum, 7-10 years that's if I mooch off my parents and don't pay rent.
What does this get me? A crapshack 1400 sq ft house in OC and you dare even suggest I feel entitled?
I'm going to be blunt, people have done a lot more than get their Bachelor's and Master's degree in engineering and lived frugally to be able to attain enough wealth to live in a desirable neighborhood. I'm not putting down your "hard work", but what you've done is probably the minimum to be a decent wage earner in OC.
Have you ever risked your capital to start a profitable business?
Have you ever pursued leadership positions in your company (or other companies), taken risk in your professional career as a LEADER, added considerable value to your company, and succeeded enough that you were promoted and trusted with more responsibility?
Have you ever joined a startup for a low wage (or no wage at all most of the time) for a percentage ownership in the company on the very, very small chance that the company will eventually become profitable and sell for a large amount of money, therefore making your wealthy?
Reason I ask those questions is because those 3 scenarios describe 3 of my neighbors in Laguna Beach who own multi-million dollar homes. They all have college degrees, they all had to live frugally at some point in their life.
As you can see, what you consider "hard work" and "exceptional" actually isn't exceptional at all. It's just the norm, the beginning. The "progressive leftist" idea that "everyone is special and extraordinary" is just a fairy tale. Not everyone is notable, or extraordinary, that's clear by the very definition of the word "extraordinary" in the English language.
I never said anyone was "entitled" to be able to buy such a house. The fact is one needs to work harder to get to that begs the question, how much harder?
This isn't even about the quantity of work now as in hold 3 "low" (in a relative sense, don't over blow this out of proportions) paying jobs to save up cash, this is straight up how much you get paid at a full time job and even doing part time job on the side.
You ask what sacrifices have I made to save money?
I went to school, got my BS and MS degrees in a "legit" field, engineering. Worked part time during school to help pay for it.
I drove a beater that was 13/14 or so years old that was about to fall apart.
I stayed with my parents to save money to pay off my student loans after my BS program.
I went without health insurance to save even more money.
I did part time work on the weekend (Saturdays usually) to save extra cash.
I stayed home and didn't go on vacations or spend too much money on discretionary stuff.
How long will I have to keep doing this to get to that "median" house price (i.e. come up with the 20% downpayment, closing cost + move in cost)? At least at the very minimum, 7-10 years that's if I mooch off my parents and don't pay rent.
What does this get me? A crapshack 1400 sq ft house in OC and you dare even suggest I feel entitled?
You don't get it. You don't buy a "median" house as your first house if you can not afford it.
You said you're an engineer, you should be making $70K ~ $100K. You live in Gilbert, Arizona. I just went to Zillow and there are MANY houses that is on the market for $200K ~ $250K. You're telling me you can not afford them?
I'm going to be blunt, people have done a lot more than get their Bachelor's and Master's degree in engineering and lived frugally to be able to attain enough wealth to live in a desirable neighborhood. I'm not putting down your "hard work", but what you've done is probably the minimum to be a decent wage earner in OC.
Have you ever risked your capital to start a profitable business?
Have you ever pursued leadership positions in your company (or other companies), taken risk in your professional career as a LEADER, added considerable value to your company, and succeeded enough that you were promoted and trusted with more responsibility?
Have you ever joined a startup for a low wage (or no wage at all most of the time) for a percentage ownership in the company on the very, very small chance that the company will eventually become profitable and sell for a large amount of money, therefore making your wealthy?
Reason I ask those questions is because those 3 scenarios describe 3 of my neighbors in Laguna Beach who own multi-million dollar homes. They all have college degrees, they all had to live frugally at some point in their life.
As you can see, what you consider "hard work" and "exceptional" actually isn't exceptional at all. It's just the norm, the beginning. The "progressive leftist" idea that "everyone is special and extraordinary" is just a fairy tale. Not everyone is notable, or extraordinary, that's clear by the very definition of the word "extraordinary" in the English language.
And this is why I said earlier you have a skewed reality when all statistics show otherwise, I'm not even a dual income earner household and already can be above the median, what else do you really expect out of me, let alone others? What you think is "the beginning" is only what you think, I can easily find you plenty others who are not even at my type of income level who think otherwise.
Sure starting up a business/trying to work for a startup is one way to gain wealth, but it comes with high risk. You're saying for everyone else out there who's not in my position or already there, you first need to get to the "mid-low" income level to save up money and risk it to buy a home (not even median priced, say on the lower end of the scale, 400-500K)? Risk it all for something or nothing right? This is where my pragmatic side takes over, I NEED housing to live in, this type of risk is too high for something that's a need. Investing in stocks and such is a good trade off which I've done. But to say put it all on the line, no not when you have nothing else to fall back on.
Terms of leadership position at my company? A fresh college grad does not get placed into a "leadership" position. Until after 5-10 years of "experience". Hell you know what happened at the company? Benefit cuts and layoffs because shareholders demand more dividends (and got them). This is consistent with many other companies around that are engineering-based around LA/OC, same story.
You don't get it. You don't buy a "median" house as your first house if you can not afford it.
You said you're an engineer, you should be making $70K ~ $100K. You live in Gilbert, Arizona. I just went to Zillow and there are MANY houses that is on the market for $200K ~ $250K. You're telling me you can not afford them?
I was originally from SoCal, I moved because I had enough and came to my senses. This ridiculous notion that I'm a rat in a wheel and all I can do is keep running and running just like everyone else is idiotic at the expense of everything else in life to expect I do this when statistically speaking, engineers already have higher-than-average incomes.
Mathematically, if you buy a house and sell within the first decade, you've lost money due to closing costs, taxes, extra utilities, and insurance versus renting. I'm not that going to fall for that trap, if I was in SoCal, I couldn't afford to lose money on anything carelessly, let alone bigger sums of money. Plus I never considered doing this because I was staying with my parents.
I'm not saying I can't afford Arizona's real estate, I moved because I can afford it comfortably and still save money for other large priorities such as retirement and student debt repayment (after investing in another degree, my MS) and not have to sacrifice the way I sacrificed before (and apparently, even that's not enough for SoCal).
man4857, if you are still single, just marry one with the same income as you and your household income just doubles.
cant understand the desire for single people to live in a 3 bedroom house.
Lol... I don't date based one's income. Do you?
No it's not the desire for single people to live in a 3 bedroom house, if I get married and have kids, who will take care of them? Since I locked myself into a 30-year mortgage, my wife can't spend time with the kids anymore and must work. Not good planning.
No it's not the desire for single people to live in a 3 bedroom house, if I get married and have kids, who will take care of them? Since I locked myself into a 30-year mortgage, my wife can't spend time with the kids anymore and must work. Not good planning.
for us people who are not rich or don't earn gazillions of money or have no trust fund from rich parents, you have to be a dual household income in order to have a house. the ideal that man should provide is just not doable in OC. its doable to some but better forget your desire to have your own home or single family home.
and this. kids grow up too. your missus only need to be with them for 6 years, if you don't want putting your kids to day care. once they are in grade school, what will your missus does the whole day?
i submit you are pessimist..not a good thing if you want to raise a family.
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You even throw a little shout out to everyone's favorite socialist right in your own quote. 
