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With all respect, I need to remind everyone that our current real estate market is certainly not operating in a truly free market. The current system has a number of unnatural mechanisms associated with it that warp the market in such a way as to make lack of affordability worse.
I also want to add to this, because we're in a market driven economy. Demand and supply of housing changes (amongst many other factors such as investment, zoning, etc.) depending on how many people want to live somewhere. If all of a sudden everyone wanted to decide in America to move to LA, we're screwed. everyone here. Only Bill Gates, Trump, Buffet gets to live there.
Is that right and just? Because we'd lose the school teachers, who will educate the children in our millioniare flooded LA? Who will operate coffee shops? They're definitely not going to pay $1M salaries. We'd lose the spirit of what made LA great because the diversity of people are now gone the culture changes. This is what's slowly happening. You can't control where people want to live, because well, freedom and liberty. But what you can control is regulations and taxation.
Edit:
This is why, I have never said anyone's view of laissez faire economics is incorrect in principle. But it IS incorrect because due to the consequences and nature of our capitalistic society. Government needs to get involved whether you like it or not. There's a difference here in ideology and real-world application.
So am I a terrible and entitled brat now for being a liberal and asking for government regulations?
Here's the PERFECT explanation of the macroeconomic effects of a capitalist society. Many principles and theories in economics and sociologists are shown here in a simplified way. This explains to you why we need to do something to address housing shortages in high-cost cities and not just say to those who can't afford it, move somewhere else, whether at the state or national level or both.
Is that right and just? Because we'd lose the school teachers, who will educate the children in our millioniare flooded LA? Who will operate coffee shops? They're definitely not going to pay $1M salaries. We'd lose the spirit of what made LA great because the diversity of people are now gone the culture changes. This is what's slowly happening. You can't control where people want to live, because well, freedom and liberty. But what you can control is regulations and taxation.
Who teaches children in Manhattan, operates the coffee shops? Just because an area becomes expensive does not mean it deteriorates. The low cost areas that a minimum wage earner could actually buy a home in, are not doing all that well with schools and amenities. Regulations and taxation can be both good and bad and generally with time get worse. There were far fewer when the US was growing and SoCal was affordable for a larger number of people living in the State than now.After all the ones making the regulations, such as minimum wage, overtime requirements, vacation and sick days, etc virtually NEVER enforce them on those who hire illegals and abuse them with low pay, no over time and 6 day 12 hr day work schedules and if they complain they are fired and don't dare complain..
Who teaches children in Manhattan, operates the coffee shops? Just because an area becomes expensive does not mean it deteriorates. The low cost areas that a minimum wage earner could actually buy a home in, are not doing all that well with schools and amenities. Regulations and taxation can be both good and bad and generally with time get worse. There were far fewer when the US was growing and SoCal was affordable for a larger number of people living in the State than now.After all the ones making the regulations, such as minimum wage, overtime requirements, vacation and sick days, etc virtually NEVER enforce them on those who hire illegals and abuse them with low pay, no over time and 6 day 12 hr day work schedules and if they complain they are fired and don't dare complain..
Because the City of New York has set aside affordable housing complexes to house these individuals in with rent control. Same with San Francisco, same with Los Angeles. They ALL have complex as hell zoning and construction regulations.
This is just part of regulations (or as you would call, "socialism") enacted and enforced upon by it's citizens asking their government to do something about a big problem. ANY city, has complex regulations because of history, culture, and the will of the majority of it's citizens to support some cause/agenda. To say that BECAUSE overtime and vacation/sick days etc. were enacted now everything is screwed up, is a gross over simplification because you want easy wins to push your ideology to get what you want. This isn't just about you and you have to realize that. Money doesn't equate to you getting your way anytime because that's how people abuse power to push others around. There are way more factors dealing with economic problems than you grossly underestimate.
Edit:
Most of Americans, including yourselves, ALWAYS point fingers without seeing the whole story because of the complexity involved but fight with your ideals, not how things actually work (i.e. understanding current regulations and changing it) and say if it doesn't work, get rid of it! No the solution is not to get rid of it if it doesn't work, it's to figure out WHY it doesn't work and change it while getting bombarded with every single lobbyist possible and news outlets and citizens all screaming left and right.
If you don't understand something, learn about it, think about it, question it, figure out why this or that happened but don't give up because it's too complicated, that just gives me reason to say you're stupid and uneducated because I've done immense research into certain policy areas to understand the problems and thus vote differently than you.
And after all, this is OUR government, it's here to make as many of us as happy as possible. If you don't know where to find the actual laws and regulations, ask your local government official. They're somewhere. B**ching, complaining, pointing fingers, feeling entitled, and throwing in the towel solves nothing. Now, let's go get that free college education available to everyone so they can be more educated as well and participate in the political process.
Because the City of New York has set aside affordable housing complexes to house these individuals in with rent control. Same with San Francisco, same with Los Angeles. They ALL have complex as hell zoning and construction regulations.
This is just part of regulations (or as you would call, "socialism") enacted and enforced upon by it's citizens asking their government to do something about a big problem. ANY city, has complex regulations because of history, culture, and the will of the majority of it's citizens to support some cause/agenda. To say that BECAUSE overtime and vacation/sick days etc. were enacted now everything is screwed up, is a gross over simplification because you want easy wins to push your ideology to get what you want. This isn't just about you and you have to realize that. Money doesn't equate to you getting your way anytime because that's how people abuse power to push others around. There are way more factors dealing with economic problems than you grossly underestimate.
You are either lacking in reading ability, with understanding, or twisting what I said. The laws about work and pay, etc are fine, it is just that the CA Government is not enforcing them when it comes to illegals being hired. This has made it not only difficult for them, but also for citizens who have been pushed out of those jobs by illegals working for way below the legal limits. I would love to see the business hiring them hit very hard by the Government, but in my nearly 50 years of business in CA it hasn't happened.
Quote:
Edit:
Most of Americans, including yourselves, ALWAYS point fingers without seeing the whole story because of the complexity involved but fight with your ideals, not how things actually work (i.e. understanding current regulations and changing it) and say if it doesn't work, get rid of it! No the solution is not to get rid of it if it doesn't work, it's to figure out WHY it doesn't work and change it while getting bombarded with every single lobbyist possible and news outlets and citizens all screaming left and right.
If you don't understand something, learn about it, think about it, question it, figure out why this or that happened but don't give up because it's too complicated, that just gives me reason to say you're stupid and uneducated because I've done immense research into certain policy areas to understand the problems and thus vote differently than you.
And after all, this is OUR government, it's here to make as many of us as happy as possible. If you don't know where to find the actual laws and regulations, ask your local government official. They're somewhere. B**ching, complaining, pointing fingers, feeling entitled, and throwing in the towel solves nothing. Now, let's go get that free college education available to everyone so they can be more educated as well and participate in the political process.
Your are making minimal sense. CA has regulations galore to protect illegals from deportation, etc. BUT when it comes to their being abused by being hired the State does .... nothing. If it did their lives would change and so would everyone else as rising wages to the required level by law would help others as well.Oh our Government is not here to MAKE as many of us as possible happy, just give us a chance. the MAKING is up to us not the Government.
You are either lacking in reading ability, with understanding, or twisting what I said. The laws about work and pay, etc are fine, it is just that the CA Government is not enforcing them when it comes to illegals being hired. This has made it not only difficult for them, but also for citizens who have been pushed out of those jobs by illegals working for way below the legal limits. I would love to see the business hiring them hit very hard by the Government, but in my nearly 50 years of business in CA it hasn't happened.
Your are making minimal sense. CA has regulations galore to protect illegals from deportation, etc. BUT when it comes to their being abused by being hired the State does .... nothing. If it did their lives would change and so would everyone else as rising wages to the required level by law would help others as well.Oh our Government is not here to MAKE as many of us as possible happy, just give us a chance. the MAKING is up to us not the Government.
I was thinking you'd read my post above already regarding pointing fingers at groups of people just because something we're having problems. Illegals aren't SOLELY the cause of the problem, they might not help the problem, but it's not their fault.
Here's something to think about, yeah the laws are set and made and meant to be enforced by the state.
Who said though it was moral to execute that enforcement?
Here's 1 example:
Back in the civil rights era, it was illegal for whites and blacks to be in the same schools and drink the same water. You could be sent to jail for that. So technically yes if a black person went to drink at a white person's fountain, they could be sent to jail and vice versa. It's the law so it was enforced. Is it morally right? No and that took the entire civil rights movement, plenty of action, protests, and including deaths of civil rights leaders to push changes through nationally.
This same idea applies to illegal immigrants. You first have to understand where did they come from, when, and how. Without understanding this and resulting to the conclusion to kick them all out is immoral to me and not right. What if a 1 year old child was brought here 20 years ago? He/She didn't even know what the heck law is at that time and you deport them? Sounds unfair.
There are various COMPLEX issues that deals with one larger national issue. Trump is probably just beginning to realize this and if you've been following the news lately as I have. The GOP in the damn legislature scares the hell out of me. They're removing regulations left and right, REGARDLESS because they're so damn driven by ideology.
Edit:
Let me respond to:
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA
Oh our Government is not here to MAKE as many of us as possible happy, just give us a chance. the MAKING is up to us not the Government.
As much as I love to trust our fellow citizens, the nature of capitalists will pit us against each other (just look back a few pages back at this thread and see other's responses to my complaint that there's no affordable housing in OC) to see who can survive/make the most money (and competition will get dirty). Therefore, as much as I'd like to see it that way, naturally we will compete and harm others if we don't have the government because we need to survive. The government is there to act as the buffer, the neutralizer you can consider, the safety net.
This is also why there has been ideas being floated around called "basic income" in European countries, where everyone is guaranteed the minimum essentials for life so that we don't have to compete so viciously, but the bargain is, if you want something more than food and a place to live, you have to work.
Lol every generation of people struggles with different issues.
We're struggling with income inequality globally, driving up prices in major cities forcing people out.
We're struggling with climate change which if we don't do anything about it, as the sea levels rise, you can say bye bye to your coastal properties.
Jobs, Illegal + legal Immigration, etc. list goes on and on.
I looked into the policy area of just paid leave/sick time/overtime before in CA, ffs it's like taking 2-3 month course to really understand what was the intention of those laws. And surprisngly (I was under at the time, the ideology of conservatives too about regulations and free markets), they all made perfect sense and I was like oh alright that's not bad because the intention is to shield the worker from being taken advantage of by big powerful corporations (which in a capitalist society, money = power).
I also want to add to this, because we're in a market driven economy. Demand and supply of housing changes (amongst many other factors such as investment, zoning, etc.) depending on how many people want to live somewhere. If all of a sudden everyone wanted to decide in America to move to LA, we're screwed. everyone here. Only Bill Gates, Trump, Buffet gets to live there.
Is that right and just? Because we'd lose the school teachers, who will educate the children in our millioniare flooded LA? Who will operate coffee shops? They're definitely not going to pay $1M salaries. We'd lose the spirit of what made LA great because the diversity of people are now gone the culture changes. This is what's slowly happening. You can't control where people want to live, because well, freedom and liberty. But what you can control is regulations and taxation.
Edit:
This is why, I have never said anyone's view of laissez faire economics is incorrect in principle. But it IS incorrect because due to the consequences and nature of our capitalistic society. Government needs to get involved whether you like it or not. There's a difference here in ideology and real-world application.
So am I a terrible and entitled brat now for being a liberal and asking for government regulations?
There are plenty of school teachers working in SF, LA, and NY, and no, they aren't all using low income housing. Your scenarios are always unrealistic and simply wrong.
"If housing prices rise too high no one will teach kids or serve coffee in those areas"
"If you risk any capital in business, you will starve and die"
The reason you cannot afford to live in a desirable area is because you are simply not successful enough to be able to live there. Plain and simple.
Do you drive a Ferrari? A Porsche?
Do you own a Rolex?
Coastal OC property falls into the category of luxury spending. You do NOT NEED to live in a desirable area of OC to survive. You WANT to live in a nice area of OC, but you do not NEED to live there.
So drop the altruistic schick with the Bernie Sanders, democratic socialism, universal basic income, the simple fact is you are a young kid who was forced to live in Gilbert Arizona because you couldn't afford OC, and now you spend the majority of your time on this forum bitching about why you couldn't afford it. Just call it what it is, envy and greed. You want something that you can't have, you're just as selfish as the capitalist you're trying to tear down. You're actually a little worse because you want to implement policies that hurt everyone who you're jealous and envious of.
Also, I notice you avoid the topic of Bernie Sanders owning 3 houses and having multi-million dollar wealth like the plague because it doesn't fit into your idealistic image of your idol.
Last edited by CaliRestoration; 01-07-2017 at 07:40 PM..
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