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We're looking at a SFR for sale in Anaheim Hills, built in 1973. We're concerned about whether the home was built with aluminum wiring which, we understand, was common for homes built in that era. We know we could find this out in a home inspection, but we don't want to go that far down the road with our offer without knowing one way or another. If it is wired with aluminum, our strong preference would be to have the house re-wired, so we would need to account for that in our budget. Any suggestions how we can find out?
We're looking at a SFR for sale in Anaheim Hills, built in 1973. We're concerned about whether the home was built with aluminum wiring which, we understand, was common for homes built in that era. We know we could find this out in a home inspection, but we don't want to go that far down the road with our offer without knowing one way or another. If it is wired with aluminum, our strong preference would be to have the house re-wired, so we would need to account for that in our budget. Any suggestions how we can find out?
Open the panel. Takes 1 minute to find out.
The problem with aluminum wiring is where aluminum meets copper because al and cu have different expansion rate. There are UL approved connectors.
For the most part aluminum wiring is safe. It requires appropriate installation methods and materials designed and rated for aluminum use. It's when amateurs get involved when the issues start
Ultimately if you can afford it swap it out to copper. It's not going to be cheap. I would worry more about a old electrical panel rather than wiring. The oanel will need to be rated for aluminum.
Usually aluminum rated components will have a stamp
15 amp receptacles will have AL-CU maybe AL
20 amp receptacles will have marked AL-CU or CU-AL
Wall witches will have marked CO/ALR
Twist-on connectors marked AL-CU or CU-AL
I know they have to be aluminum rated to ge used. So be careful what you buy.
Find Eddie#### he's a sparky. It's been a while since I did anything in a residence with electrical. He will help you
DO NOT USE push in connectors (aka WAGO) and do not use the stab in on a receptacle or switch. Wrap the wire around the terminal without cutting or nicking the jacket or wire. Stranded aluminum requires a special coating chemical
Last edited by Electrician4you; 06-13-2017 at 10:03 PM..
Aluminum wiring, used in some homes from the mid 1960's to the early 1970's, is a potential fire hazard. According to the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission, fires and even deaths have been reported to have been caused by this hazard. Problems due to expansion can cause overheating at connections between the wire and devices (switches and outlets) or at splices. CPSC research shows that "homes wired with aluminum wire manufactured before 1972 are 55 times more likely to have one or more connections reach "Fire Hazard Conditions" than are homes wired with copper. "Post 1972" aluminum wire is also a concern. Introduction of the aluminum wire "alloys" in 1972 time frame did not solve most of the connection failure problems. Aluminum wiring is still permitted and used for certain applications, including residential service entrance wiring and single-purpose higher amperage circuits such as 240V air conditioning or electric range circuits.
The Issues
Shortly after aluminum wiring became popular, some problems started to appear. These included flickering lights, warm cover plates on switches and receptacles, and burned insulation on wiring. There was an overheating issue, and overheating can mean fires. They looked into it and found there were three other differences between copper and aluminum.
Aluminum is a much softer metal than copper. Electricians who had always worked with copper found that it was very easy to nick, cut, or crush the aluminum wiring when removing insulation or making connections. They had to be gentler. Damaged wire creates local hot spots and results in overheating-
When electricity flows through wire, the wire heats up. Aluminum wire expands more than copper when it heats up. The repeated expansion and contraction as the wire heated up and cooled down caused to the wire to creep out from under the terminal screws that held the wire in place. This wire creeping resulted in loose connections and overheating-
Rusting: When metals rust, they form an oxide on the surface. Rust on steel is red, rust on copper is green, and rust on aluminum is white. It’s not a big problem when copper wiring rusts, since the copper oxide that forms is electrically conductive. It doesn’t interfere with the wire’s ability to do its job. When aluminum wiring rusts, the white oxide is not a very good electrical conductor. It does interfere with the flow of electricity, and again, can cause overheating.
The Solution
The problem was at connections, such as receptacles, switches, light fixtures, appliance connections, and at the panel. The solution was special connectors.
Connectors that work well with both copper and aluminum were created. That included:
Small receptacles marked CO/ALR or AL-CU
Large receptacles (> 20 amps) marked AL-CU or CU-AL
Switches marked CO/ALR
Twist-on wire connectors (sometimes called wire nuts) marked AL-CU or CU-AL
Electrical panels and breakers marked AL-CU or CU-AL were also available.
There were other approved connection systems that have come and substantially gone.
Last edited by SportyandMisty; 06-15-2017 at 10:50 AM..
If it is wired with aluminum, our strong preference would be to have the house re-wired, so we would need to account for that in our budget. Any suggestions how we can find out?
Before visiting a house for sale, make your realtor find out if the home has aluminum wiring. "I don't know" is not an acceptable answer. Make your realtor find out; that's why s/he is paid the big bucks.
Shortly after aluminum wiring became popular, some problems started to appear. These included flickering lights, warm cover plates on switches and receptacles, and burned insulation on wiring. There was an overheating issue, and overheating can mean fires. They looked into it and found there were three other differences between copper and aluminum.
Aluminum is a much softer metal than copper. Electricians who had always worked with copper found that it was very easy to nick, cut, or crush the aluminum wiring when removing insulation or making connections. They had to be gentler. Damaged wire creates local hot spots and results in overheating-
When electricity flows through wire, the wire heats up. Aluminum wire expands more than copper when it heats up. The repeated expansion and contraction as the wire heated up and cooled down caused to the wire to creep out from under the terminal screws that held the wire in place. This wire creeping resulted in loose connections and overheating-
Rusting: When metals rust, they form an oxide on the surface. Rust on steel is red, rust on copper is green, and rust on aluminum is white. It’s not a big problem when copper wiring rusts, since the copper oxide that forms is electrically conductive. It doesn’t interfere with the wire’s ability to do its job. When aluminum wiring rusts, the white oxide is not a very good electrical conductor. It does interfere with the flow of electricity, and again, can cause overheating.
The Solution
The problem was at connections, such as receptacles, switches, light fixtures, appliance connections, and at the panel. The solution was special connectors.
Connectors that work well with both copper and aluminum were created. That included:
Small receptacles marked CO/ALR or AL-CU
Large receptacles (> 20 amps) marked AL-CU or CU-AL
Switches marked CO/ALR
Twist-on wire connectors (sometimes called wire nuts) marked AL-CU or CU-AL
Electrical panels and breakers marked AL-CU or CU-AL were also available.
There were other approved connection systems that have come and substantially gone.
The biggest issues with aluminum wiring is when amateurs get involved. To most people a receptacle is a receptacle is a receptacle. Aluminum requires special handling along with specifically rated equipment.
For the most part I would worry more about the 1979 main panel that's got old breakers
The biggest issues with aluminum wiring is when amateurs get involved. To most people a receptacle is a receptacle is a receptacle. Aluminum requires special handling along with specifically rated equipment.
For the most part I would worry more about the 1979 main panel that's got old breakers
I'm not an electrician. I assume you are a licensed electrician from your handle, so I will always defer 100% to you on such things.
At the same time, I'm one of those people who wants to know the underlying issues. As a non-electrician, my first question is "why do issues arise when amateurs get involved?" It appears it is technique training experience, as well as specialized knowledge of fixtures & recepticles. Why does a 1979 panel pose a problem? Is it the breakers, or is it the panel itself? Or is it the workmanship likely to have been deployed 38 years ago? Or is it deterioration?
I'm not an electrician. I assume you are a licensed electrician from your handle, so I will always defer 100% to you on such things.
At the same time, I'm one of those people who wants to know the underlying issues.
As a non-electrician, my first question is "why do issues arise when amateurs get involved?" Partially because of what I call the "good enough can't see it from my house" mentality. I've seen people use extension cord as electrical wire. No joke. They drilled holes and ran orange 14 gauge(ish) extension cord wire. What's sad is they covered it with drywall. So they cut corners and saved what 3 cents per foot in costs and then drywalled it. For a 220v dryer receptacle. Not being a jerk but the average person simply doesn't understand electricity and what it's capable of doing.
Overfilling conduit. All wiring gets hot. When it gets too hot the protective jacket melts when you overfill a conduit you potentially have a fire issue.
It appears it is technique training experience, as well as specialized knowledge of fixtures & recepticles.
Really comes down to training. And I've seen electricians do bonehead moves. Hell I've done a few myself. I grabbed a roll of 12 ga and ran it to a 220 v receptacle. And I ran the 220 to a 110 location. Had it all ready then I realized. Of course it was too short and I had to rerun it. Think I kicked myself that day? Just mind wondering not thinking.
I miswired a main once and blew the main fuse when I tried to turn it on. Had to take a step back and get my stuff together. Just wasn't paying attention.
Now imagine someone who has no training and what damage they can do.
Why does a 1979 panel pose a problem?
Panels get worn. I just used 1979 as a example year. As electricity passes through the many connection points it arcs. All those arcs combined with vibrations over many years wear out the contact points. Lots of old panels are known to catch fire. Zinsco was a biggie. FedPac, buss/fuse box were known issues too. Knob and tube can be a issue. I'm sure plenty of them still out there as a panel swap runs 2-2500
Is it the breakers, or is it the panel itself?
Sometimes both. I've seen breakers that do not pop when shorted/faulted. Sometimes they mechanically break internally and don't pop others they are faulty. I've seen new breakers get installed and they break.
Or is it the workmanship likely to have been deployed 38 years ago?
As codes change the workmanship does change too. There are plenty of times when we think why did they do that. Sometimes because that how it was. Lots of new codes. We have now integrated low and high voltage. With new digital controls and solar panels lots of things change. I mean physically wire is still ran from A to B but now it's more than a hot neutral and ground
Workmanship itself is really a lot in the hands of the installer. Like anything some people are OCD others are "I don't care" types. Not all electricians are created equally
Or is it deterioration?
There is deterioration and also just bad design. Bad design Sometimesdoesn't show for a while though. Sometimes it shows instantly and it gets pulled.
"Inquiring minds want to know."
Bold
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